What caused these headgaskets to leak?

[hungerbuhler1]

Paid to have this motor be built and after 6 passes and maybe 200 miles max did a leak down and every cylinder leaked so pulled heads. No water was in oil whatsoever and never any knock.

 

[turbo nasty]

No pictures?
Iron heads and studs?

 

[hungerbuhler1]

No pictures?
Iron heads and studs?

It shows i attatched pictures on my screen. Champion irons and arp studs.

 

[TurboDave]

You uploaded a zip file. We'll not see pics like you can.

 

[hungerbuhler1]

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Wrong length studs??? Looks to me as tho there's way too much thread showing.

 

[Razor]

Steel shim gasket?

If surfaces are not perfectly flat.. you'll have issues. The graphites give you wiggle room. MLS gaskets need deck and head surfaces to be perfectly flat. Some sealant on the mating surfaces would probably help. Like copper spray, hylomar, etc

 

[Razor]

Wrong length studs??? Looks to me as tho there's way too much thread showing.

That too..

 

[turbo nasty]

The one stud thats shown in your pics with the head still on is the one that is problem with being too long and could very well be the problem as Chuck mentioned the thread exposed are alot.
That would be the case for 2 mid length studs per head = 4 total.
Look at the thread interface mark (from the thread lube) on those studs still screwed into the block and you will see that the nut is very close to being torqued down on the shoulder of the stud vs. the proper clamp force on head/block/fastener.
I add a extra washer under those 4 studs so you have 2 washers per stud.
ARP has been contacted about it but they have no desire to change , I know several people have blown headgaskets on new engines from it.
Not ruling out detonation ...cant really tell in pics but the studs is where I would start.

If using cometics ....

What surface finish is required to us an MLS head gasket?

A surface finish of 50 RA (roughness average) or finer, is recommended for a proper gasket seal. Anything rougher may conflict with the gasket design.

 

[hungerbuhler1]

Thanks guys. Were going back with cometic gaskets and i have read about the studs on some other threads.

 

[pacecarta]

maybe Im retarded but I missed why you did a leakdown , how was it done ? and what results did you get to warrant pulling the heads?
you state you tested and all leaked but thats the reason for using a leakdown becuase they will leak ..itswhat the percentage is thats important and if it was high what steps did you take to lessen it ?
did you also do a compression test as well?

im trying to see where you determined the head gasket

as far as pics i dont see anything
and when you assemble if the inboard end stud threads are even with head just drop a single washer and go , if not stack on another washer

 

[HelloBozos]

Have Central Florida Speed an Machine build it, 407-877-2800.....(not you Know who...tried to warn you)

 

[JayC]

What did you use on the gasket to seal it?

Ive got no use for Cometics. I think theyre garbage but thats just my opinion which these days aint worth much.

 

[blackgn1]

Is it me or does one of those gaskets look like it had detonation going on pushing the gasket out?

 

[JayC]

Is it me or does one of those gaskets look like it had detonation going on pushing the gasket out?

Dude.. you need to make that signature smaller.

 

[Mike Licht]

What did you use on the gasket to seal it?

Ive got no use for Cometics. I think theyre garbage but thats just my opinion which these days aint worth much.

You and me both Jay, on both counts.

 

[Nick Micale]

It is too bad your engine builder does not have enough turbo Buick experience to inform you that when using steel shim head gaskets, you must constantly re-torque them, especially when running over 18-20 psi.

Buick used these gaskets on the hot air cars which would run 8-10 psi boost. Personally, I do not like them on iron heads with lots of boost as alum heads conform and hold better.

We usually do 3 or 3 re-torques after heat cycles before boost exceeds 8-10 PSI, and continually after 2-3 time at the track.

Cometics gaskets may work ok, but I would still re-torque them a couple times after install and before hard passes, and periodically after that.

 

[hungerbuhler1]

It is too bad your engine builder does not have enough turbo Buick experience to inform you that when using steel shim head gaskets, you must constantly re-torque them, especially when running over 18-20 psi.

Buick used these gaskets on the hot air cars which would run 8-10 psi boost. Personally, I do not like them on iron heads with lots of boost as alum heads conform and hold better.

We usually do 3 or 3 re-torques after heat cycles before boost exceeds 8-10 PSI, and continually after 2-3 time at the track.

Cometics gaskets may work ok, but I would still re-torque them a couple times after install and before hard passes, and periodically after that.

Yes my local mechanic that helped me pull motor said these should have been re torqued which they never were. Wish I knew. Lesson learned.

It's both heads that are blown. So I'm thinking the re torquing would have stopped this.

Car ran good but was having hot start issue. When plugs were pulled one was rusty so that's why we checked. Also coolant was vanishing with no visible leaks. And sometimes on a pass it would blow lid off coolant tank.

 

[SFI Cutlass]

Did you used any thread sealant on the studs going into the block?

 

[hungerbuhler1]

Did you used any thread sealant on the studs going into the block?

Didnt build motor so i have no idea.