What size stall?

[EVIL]

I'm ordering a new stall converter and would like to know what stall to use.
212/212 roller cam
HS rokers
ported stock irons
bigger valves
precision front mount
TE60

I also have a 6776 turbo not on car.

It's going to be a non lock up converter. PTC 9.5

thanks
D

 

[Nick Micale]

3800 stall.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

When you call I will set it up for you. There's alot more info I need to know to finalize what you need.

Dusty

 

[charlief1]

When you call I will set it up for you. There's alot more info I need to know to finalize what you need.

Dusty

To save time in the future post all the info you need to get the stall right Dusty. That may help others in the long run.

 

[Pronto]

My I suggest that Dusty start a new thread with all the info he needs to spec a converter, then you guys can make it a sticky.

 

[charlief1]

My I suggest that Dusty start a new thread with all the info he needs to spec a converter, then you guys can make it a sticky.

Kinda what I was getting at.

 

[Pronto]

Great minds think alike.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

To save time in the future post all the info you need to get the stall right Dusty. That may help others in the long run.

Engine ci
Turbo size
Cam size
Intended shift rpm
Head info
Trans type
LU or NLU desired
Race weight
Rear gear ratio
Rear tire size
Desired et goal
Intended to be more of a driver or racer
Foot brake or trans brake launch

That will get me most of what I need to know.

 

[Nick Micale]

I know I may take heat for this post, but being a simple person, I think over 90% of the converter stall choices boil down to only a few different sizes.

Obviously this is my opinion, but it is based upon a few hundred times I have selected converters for various builds from basic upgrade to low 8 sec. GN's.

My first statement is most guys are afraid of too much stall, and almost always pick lower than optimum.

The most important element in choosing a converter is the turbo, unless the car is intended for mainly racing, the other items have very little influence on the stall choice.

The following comments not only apply to customer GN's, but they also apply to my personal cars as my different cars have been built for the various stages from stock to race.

I start with a basic upgrade build with a 44/49 turbo and using a D5 12" LU with max stall at 3000 which will works great on a street build.

When using a 60/62 turbo, the 12" sucks, and a smaller converter at 3600 does the job. For LU, I use a 9/11 so the lock up will be reliable on the street, if it is NOT locked up at the track.

With a 66/67 turbo at least a 3800 stall is needed for good all around performance on the street, for track use a little higher stall is best.

At the level of a 70mm which means a 9 sec. build, a 4500 stall is minimum until competition is tough, and then 5000 stall is needed.

From there on, a full race custom converter is needed for the application. When we were running Gallina's GN in NHRA competition, we have a few different converters in the trailer depending on the track and other variables.

My final comment is that I would rather go too high on stall, and tighten it if needed, rather than start too tight.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

I agree to a point Nick. It will take X amount of stall to spool X amount of turbo. The rest of the questions need to be answered to get a feel of what the customer wants so he can be happy about his converter purchase. I'm also not scared to tell the customer he needs a new turbo rather than a converter. In many cases people simply over turbo the application and will never be happy with the street manners because of this. The right converter can not fix the wrong turbo choice.

As for stall speeds. I really wish I could have made this years TB.com event. I have some logs for people to look at that will shed some light on stall speeds. If I were to put 2 logs side by side, I bet 99% of the crowd will not be able to tell which car has a 67mm turbo or a 88mm turbo on it. The converters will be different but both will start seeing boost near the exact same rpm. This is the reason I prefer to distance ourselves from talking stall speeds.

 

[Nick Micale]

Dusty, I appreciate what a great asset you are to the Buick community, and the insight you have given us about the "mysterious" torque converter stall ratings for a given build.

It is so much easier and more accurate to rate a converter dynamically by noting RPM at zero boost. Even though the actual stall may vary by car and build, it is a great reference point to judge the expected performance.

The stall speeds I mentioned are from the "old school" general, or advertised ratings, and your method works better to select a converter for a given build, especially for the more powerful cars.

For example, my race car will stall at 3000 RPM when reaching 0 psi boost, but it is rated as a 5000 stall, and the flash stall is over 4000 RPM. This converter replaced a "4000 stall" converter, so my car is now very competitive since it leaves so hard!

Certainly the owner's expectation and intended use of the vehicle will also enter the picture when choosing a converter, and this is where a personal conversation is a big help in getting it right the first time.

 

[Nick Micale]

........ The right converter cannot fix the wrong turbo choice.
.....

I just cringe when a customer comes to me with a build that includes a big turbo the he can "grow into later".

There are jobs I have lost because I refused to do the build that way knowing the customer will be unhappy with the car, and I will get the blame.

 

[EVIL]

Not all great minds think alike.
Thanks for the help.

D

 

[T- Type Tim]

here s some motivation for you.... mine just showed up cant wait to put it in

 

[trbojo]

I know I may take heat for this post, but being a simple person, I think over 90% of the converter stall choices boil down to only a few different sizes.

Obviously this is my opinion, but it is based upon a few hundred times I have selected converters for various builds from basic upgrade to low 8 sec. GN's.

My first statement is most guys are afraid of too much stall, and almost always pick lower than optimum.

The most important element in choosing a converter is the turbo, unless the car is intended for mainly racing, the other items have very little influence on the stall choice.

The following comments not only apply to customer GN's, but they also apply to my personal cars as my different cars have been built for the various stages from stock to race.

I start with a basic upgrade build with a 44/49 turbo and using a D5 12" LU with max stall at 3000 which will works great on a street build.

When using a 60/62 turbo, the 12" sucks, and a smaller converter at 3600 does the job. For LU, I use a 9/11 so the lock up will be reliable on the street, if it is NOT locked up at the track.

With a 66/67 turbo at least a 3800 stall is needed for good all around performance on the street, for track use a little higher stall is best.

At the level of a 70mm which means a 9 sec. build, a 4500 stall is minimum until competition is tough, and then 5000 stall is needed.

From there on, a full race custom converter is needed for the application. When we were running Gallina's GN in NHRA competition, we have a few different converters in the trailer depending on the track and other variables.

My final comment is that I would rather go too high on stall, and tighten it if needed, rather than start too tight.

so you're saying 3800 for a 66?i bought a turbonetis 66/65 bb..... why would cotton's tell me 3400, 3200 if i went ball bearing?? right now i have a transmission specialties 10" lock up...stall is 2800 @ 0 psi, 3200 @ 2 psi....so from yur calculations i'm almost 1000 rpm low?? this converter choice thing gets pretty confusing at times...stall at 0, stall at 2 psi, flash stall....how are you supposed to check what you have to see if the stall is correct?

 

[Nick Micale]

A few of use have BB 70mm turbos, and the lowest stall converter is a 4500 from Dusty.

With a local Limited with a 66mm turbo has a 3800 stall with an awesome leave right now, but he want to go to a 4000-4200 stall. This is a full weight car and is a hell of a performer on the street!

I also like the higher stall converters on the street as the tires do NOT break loose as readily when accelerating hard.

 

[Nick Micale]

A few of use have BB 70mm turbos, and the lowest stall converter is a 4500 from Dusty.

With a local Limited with a 66mm turbo has a 3800 stall with an awesome leave right now, but he want to go to a 4000-4200 stall. This is a full weight car and is a hell of a performer on the street!

I also like the higher stall converters on the street as the tires do NOT break loose as readily when accelerating hard.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

so you're saying 3800 for a 66?i bought a turbonetis 66/65 bb..... why would cotton's tell me 3400, 3200 if i went ball bearing?? right now i have a transmission specialties 10" lock up...stall is 2800 @ 0 psi, 3200 @ 2 psi....so from yur calculations i'm almost 1000 rpm low?? this converter choice thing gets pretty confusing at times...stall at 0, stall at 2 psi, flash stall....how are you supposed to check what you have to see if the stall is correct?

A 66/65 will work fine with a 0-1# stall of around 3000 rpm. This is the only rating I look at concerning spool-up. 3200 will spool easier than 2800 but the closer you get the stall speed to the shift rpm, the more slip you will have. This is why the turbo must match the rpm and converter.

This is the reason I avoid stall talk with turbo cars..........there is no true stall speed other than 0-1#. I can raise or lower stall speed with boost(torque). This goes for WOT as well as spooling.

 

[bison]

My black car with 6265 last year was 2900@0 4000@12psi and 5400@28psi. The 17 blade converter was slightly tight for that car. It probably would have been a little better with an 18 blade and the cam i used. Peak power was at 5550@29psi. Not a big deal since we would be talking hundredths if the car used all of its power the entire pass and was geared optimally. With that small 6265 leaving at 10psi would be plenty to get it to the fast part of the ramp in immediately after the car moves. With a heavier turbine and compressor it would need to be brought to a higher rpm to get the same effect out of it which makes it harder to control when leaving. People ask me what stall i have and i say dont worry about it.