Where to get the octane?

[Alky V6]

I'm currently using the coldest NGK plug I could find for my application, a -11. With the E-85 I run 36 deg timing and 9.25:1 at idle and end up at 26deg timing and 6:1 at 311kpa. EGT's are in the 1300* range. Rich enough, you think? Wait till you see the new E85, turbo, 6 liter LS sleeper project that's in the works:smile:

How many threads are you burning?
Have you cut the ground electrode back further than how they come in the box?
Not sure what a good egt for ethanol is, but 1300 with methanol is living dangerously on the edge.
What are you using for an O2 sensor? Does it really read that low? I would think that for a stoich of 9:1 and no intercooler, you should be closer to 5:1?

Give it up. Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[Alky V6]

Scott. What's cool about the Champion plug is that the ground strap is so short that the plug is practically a side gap plug. That's how it comes out of the box.

 

[Chevota]

Patience Don, patience. I'm still tuning and will share more info when I'm satisfied with the results. I'll look into the champion plugs but I've always prefered the NGKs. With the ability to change the fuel energy constant in the XFI parameters my numbers are not as lean as they appear. Don't forget to take into account my supplemental "intercooling" setup.:smile:

 

[vlzman]

Well, user Fog has done great job by persuading me to prefer methanol. Will send my block to repairs next week and then start to consider which parts to order to make the switch to meth. DonWG do you happen to have the flowchart of Weldon 2345A?

 

[fog]

Well, not exactly using methanol, but calculating the system for it so in the end, can use(and tune to) either of them. Eth/meth.

The biggest problem I see right now is, that the current weldon 2015A flows only 100gph @ 75psi but the injectors flow 1600cc times 6.

Calculation shows, that the pump can only feed 1050cc @ 75psi (43.5base + 30psi boost + some plumbing loss).

For meth, roughly 2 times the flow is needed for the same power (12/1 vs 6/1 "fat and happy").

Weldon 2345 is 205GPH @ 75psi so yes, it should do. But that costs around $1100.
Second 2015A can be had for 600$ and the total flow for two of those in parallel would be 200GPH @ 75psi. That will support 2000cc injectors fully open @ 30psi or 2350cc @ 85% DC @ 30psi.

So the moran 235lb/min "cheaper ones" is right on the dot with dual 2015A-s.

 

[Alky V6]

Patience Don, patience. I'm still tuning and will share more info when I'm satisfied with the results. I'll look into the champion plugs but I've always prefered the NGKs. With the ability to change the fuel energy constant in the XFI parameters my numbers are not as lean as they appear. Don't forget to take into account my supplemental "intercooling" setup.:smile:

You can't be!... NO!... Don't tell me... Your Using Nitrous Too??!!!

You are a complete ANIMAL!!!

I used to prefer NGK too. But, I got tired of melting ground straps and losing the porcelain. Losing the porcelain is a real bummer.
I have not found another plug like this Champion I've been using.

 

[Chevota]

I'd suggest a belt driven mechanical pump.

 

[Alky V6]

Well, user Fog has done great job by persuading me to prefer methanol. Will send my block to repairs next week and then start to consider which parts to order to make the switch to meth. DonWG do you happen to have the flowchart of Weldon 2345A?

The 2345A is good to 1200 hp with the methanol on a fairly rich mixture (4.6:1). I do have the flowchart. I'll have to dig it up. Anything past 1200 hp will require 2 electric pumps, but like Scott suggested, a mechanical pump would be the best.

 

[fog]

I found the flowchart here.

And 2015A.

 

[Alky V6]

If you run the Weldon 2345-A, I highly suggest that you also run a volt booster, set to activate at a certain low boost (5-8 psi), like the Kenne Bell unit. Kinsler sells it. You will need to set the volt booster to the max setting if the target truly is 1200 BHP.

The flow chart that came with my 2345-A is based on an input voltage of 16.5V.

291gph @ 45 psi drawing just over 17 amps.
265gph @ 80 psi drawing just over 19 amps.
269gph @ 75 psi drawing 18.6 amps.

 

[JayC]

We run methanol in our race car. 550#/hr injectors and a mechanical fuel pump.

Depending on what engine management system youre running, youre going to probably need an upgrade of some sort to your box unless you go with the large single injectors like Moran sells or the ones we have that came from Mick's Performance.

If you're in a "money is no object" situation, call me at the shop and we can talk about the engine management system we run but its VERY expensive, makes Motec look like a MegaSquirt pricewise but for methanol, it does things no other system does.

 

[Alky V6]

We run methanol in our race car. 550#/hr injectors and a mechanical fuel pump.

Depending on what engine management system youre running, youre going to probably need an upgrade of some sort to your box unless you go with the large single injectors like Moran sells or the ones we have that came from Mick's Performance.

If you're in a "money is no object" situation, call me at the shop and we can talk about the engine management system we run but its VERY expensive, makes Motec look like a MegaSquirt pricewise but for methanol, it does things no other system does.

Jay, don't do that to us. What kind of salesman are you. Can't you see we're all ears. Tell us what the system does that's special.

 

[vlzman]

Any suggestions which mechanical pump brands I should look for? Weldon http://www.weldonracing.com/product/31-16/34706__6+_GPM_Mechanical_Fuel_Pump.html?
Using BS3 for mu engine management and I'm quite satisfied with it, I'll probably go with big injectors.
Just in case JayC please PM me what would be the price range, you never know...

 

[JayC]

Jay, don't do that to us. What kind of salesman are you. Can't you see we're all ears. Tell us what the system does that's special.

Im pretty sure I talked about it in the threads on the car's buildup. The system we run uses a wideband for logging but for correction, it uses high speed EGT sensors in each cylinder. It has 3 levels of correction. It samples the EGT sensors 3 million times a second and unlike sensors they use for EGT gauges, these have an immediate response to temperature changes.

Its also COP but other systems do that. Thats one of the things that contributes to the huge pricetag of this thing. The coils are really expensive, especially with the CNC'd brackets.

It also has an extensive datalogger built in that pretty much eliminates the need for a RacePack. You can do everything in the datalogger that a RacePack can do.

Its not a plug and play system, tho and as far as I know, we're the only people that have it running on a V6. You dont get a premade harness, you get a box of wire with connectors in a bag and you have to build your own harness. It took us about a week to wire the thing up. When we wrecked the car, we made sure to remove all that stuff without disconnecting anything so we can lay it back in when we get to that point with the rebuild.

 

[JayC]

Any suggestions which mechanical pump brands I should look for? Weldon // WELDON RACING PUMPS // 2800 HP Mechanical Fuel Pump -- Weldon Racing Pumps
Using BS3 for mu engine management and I'm quite satisfied with it, I'll probably go with big injectors.
Just in case JayC please PM me what would be the price range, you never know...

This is what we run. Its overkill and we have it slowed WAY down. It will move up to 65 gallons per minute.

 

[Alky V6]

Electromotive is the same way. You get a bunch of wires.
I think the pre-made harnesses are for sissies, anyway. :tongue:

Do they have these high speed egt sensors available for simple gauge work?

 

[JayC]

Electromotive is the same way. You get a bunch of wires.
I think the pre-made harnesses are for sissies, anyway. :tongue:

Do they have these high speed egt sensors available for simple gauge work?

I dont know. Ill call and find out.