Which pistons????

[TURBOELKY]

I guess I should have clarified, I wasn't specifically talking buicks with removing material up top. I've seen some big block chevys come trough the shop with stroker kits that didn't fit for shit, end up costing more to make them work than ordering a proper piston.

On another note, I think you just like saying NO . I like how you put emphasis on NO.

 

[turbo89]

I guess I should have clarified, I wasn't specifically talking buicks with removing material up top. I've seen some big block chevys come trough the shop with stroker kits that didn't fit for shit, end up costing more to make them work than ordering a proper piston.

On another note, I think you just like saying NO . I like how you put emphasis on NO.

Correct NO is emphasized for a reason

So the next guy reading pays attention

And YES not all stroker kits are created equal

And YES people need to fully
Understand what they need and why before just pulling the trigger on parts vendors sell only to find a ohh shit moment when the builder starts putting things together

Half the problem is poor planning
The other half is unsound technical info

 

[bison]

These will without a doubt make power over an off the shelf kit.


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[TURBOELKY]

Amen.

 

[turbo89]

These will without a doubt make power over an off the shelf kit.


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Thats a pretty bold statement

Maybe .. But just how much ??

And more important .. On what type of setup

 

[bison]

Thats a pretty bold statement

Maybe .. But just how much ??

And more important .. On what type of setup

About 70whp vs a stock shortblock with almost the same stuff and more dish than this (approximately 9.4:1) except the one that was 70whp more had a set of iron heads vs a really good set of aluminum heads on the stock shortblock. Both were 93/alky. I expect 130-150whp more with these and ethanol fuel over the stock shortblock engine.


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[turbo89]

About 70whp vs a stock shortblock with almost the same stuff and more dish than this (approximately 9.4:1) except the one that was 70whp more had a set of iron heads vs a really good set of aluminum heads on the stock shortblock. Both were 93/alky. I expect 130-150whp more with these and ethanol fuel over the stock shortblock engine.


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Almost the same stuff but DIFFERENT???

You listed alot of important variables between setups that easily can account for a significant portion of the power increase

So again .. I will ask the question .. Can you with certainty say that if i take those pistons and put them in my engine that i will gain 70rwhp over my current off the shelf pistons with everything else being untouched in my setup??

 

[bison]

Almost the same stuff but DIFFERENT???

You listed alot of important variables between setups that easily can account for a significant portion of the power increase

So again .. I will ask the question .. Can you with certainty say that if i take those pistons and put them in my engine that i will gain 70rwhp over my current off the shelf pistons with everything else being untouched in my setup??

If you're asking I'd say no way. If you assemble an engine with a kit and i assemble an engine with specific parts I can assure you that the one I assembled will make noticeably more power. The things that were significantly different for the better were on the lesser performing engine other than the fact the better performing one was a very fresh engine. The pistons (CR) and cam timing in a turbo engine are huge. It's not just a few horsepower.


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[thadeal4real]

Im just curious how many different compression heights have you guys ran ?

 

[turbo89]

If you're asking I'd say no way. If you assemble an engine with a kit and i assemble an engine with specific parts I can assure you that the one I assembled will make noticeably more power. The things that were significantly different for the better were on the lesser performing engine other than the fact the better performing one was a very fresh engine. The pistons (CR) and cam timing in a turbo engine are huge. It's not just a few horsepower.


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And that is my point .. The piston itself (as a component on its own) will really not be a significant contributor without bringing in other factors over a off the shelf unit on a fixed setup.

The other important factor that cant be dismissed .. As great as your engine setup maybe .. It doesnt mean a F'n thing when the guy cant tune for shit .. Which is the 1 major hurdle with these cars

 

[TRYMYSIX]

You dont take material off the dome.. Thats a NO NO

The stroker kits ive seen dont set the piston above the deck but below the deck.. What he is trying to do is take a piston not designed in the kit and make it work... Dont ask me why???

What i suggested was that the pistons used in the kits will get you close enough where they will suffice for 90% of us

I also offered up a JE job number to take all the math out as that setup has been done.. Again this will be also dependant on if the OPs requirements are the same as what mine were .

Final point is there is no MAGIC piston that will unlock some hidden performance barrier .. you still have to work with somewhat fixed dimensions and can only alter so much

Here's why... Summit racing had the Eagle 4140 cranks on sale for $395.00. I wanted the Eagle 3.625" crank and the 5.967" rods that are used in almost all the stroker kits sold by various Buick vendors. However, when I went to find a set of pistons that would work, I simply couldn't find any. So I called JE, CP, Weisco and Eagle to find the information as to why none would work. All off the shelf pistons seemed to protrude above the deck height surface of 9.535"......... And I agree, what is perfect.........

So in theory........The "BOX" Stroker kits come with pistons that may be in the hole ten thousandths or may be out of the hole 20 thousandths (give or take) and the engine builder has to work some voodoo magic to make them work? Maybe I'm looking too deep into this, but I'm just not one to throw out a few thousand dollars, stab a stroker kit in that "works good enough"...

In reality.....Get a crank and rods...Have the block machined and decked, record said deck height and then have custom pistons made that will fit perfect.... But I do really appreciate all the discussion on my thread, I am learning more and more everyday from the experts.

 

[bison]

And that is my point .. The piston itself (as a component on its own) will really not be a significant contributor without bringing in other factors over a off the shelf unit on a fixed setup.

The other important factor that cant be dismissed .. As great as your engine setup maybe .. It doesnt mean a F'n thing when the guy cant tune for shit .. Which is the 1 major hurdle with these cars

The piston is the biggest contributing factor in post #26.


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[bison]

In reality.....Get a crank and rods...Have the block machined and decked, record said deck height and then have custom pistons made that will fit perfect....

It still won't be perfect but it will be a lot closer and very predictable. It's not uncommon to see stroke variance journal to journal especially on cheap crankshafts. So do you find each journal .010" and grind for stroke? Maybe if you're building NASCAR engines but most don't go that far. Like chasing after pennies when there are dollars everywhere to be had.



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[turbo89]

Here's why... Summit racing had the Eagle 4140 cranks on sale for $395.00. I wanted the Eagle 3.625" crank and the 5.967" rods that are used in almost all the stroker kits sold by various Buick vendors. However, when I went to find a set of pistons that would work, I simply couldn't find any. So I called JE, CP, Weisco and Eagle to find the information as to why none would work. All off the shelf pistons seemed to protrude above the deck height surface of 9.535"......... And I agree, what is perfect.........

So in theory........The "BOX" Stroker kits come with pistons that may be in the hole ten thousandths or may be out of the hole 20 thousandths (give or take) and the engine builder has to work some voodoo magic to make them work? Maybe I'm looking too deep into this, but I'm just not one to throw out a few thousand dollars, stab a stroker kit in that "works good enough"...

In reality.....Get a crank and rods...Have the block machined and decked, record said deck height and then have custom pistons made that will fit perfect.... But I do really appreciate all the discussion on my thread, I am learning more and more everyday from the experts.

Not sure why you would use a 4140 crank .. When for not much more a 4340 can be had .. But ok

 

[TRYMYSIX]

Because I don't have a race car. $400 vs $700ish. And to my knowledge there have been zero proof of 4140 crank failures outnumbering 4340 crank failures. This has been beat to death for years.......

$300 bucks buys a lot of beer...lol