Who is the Fastest all time, Stock Susp, 10.5 tire GN?

[Quint]

Looks to be an exciting time 2010 for sure, with stock susp GN's. Jan and the crew at Xtreme are getting "Fear" ready to finnaly turn it up and hopefully see some 7's. Ya Never know what you got, until you push it, and we are about to find out next year. Not sure on a radial or slick, but probably a slick, until we have everything sorted out with getting the power down. Will get pics out of the stage 2 power plant first of the year. Chris, your going to be there no doubts, good luck. Our car right now is 3590 (i'm 200#'s) with me in it, wouldnt mind taking out a little weight myself to help out.

 

[HighPSI]

Looks to be an exciting time 2010 for sure, with stock susp GN's. Jan and the crew at Xtreme are getting "Fear" ready to finnaly turn it up and hopefully see some 7's. Ya Never know what you got, until you push it, and we are about to find out next year. Not sure on a radial or slick, but probably a slick, until we have everything sorted out with getting the power down. Will get pics out of the stage 2 power plant first of the year. Chris, your going to be there no doubts, good luck. Our car right now is 3590 (i'm 200#'s) with me in it, wouldnt mind taking out a little weight myself to help out.

Looking at your signature, it looks like you have all the right pieces to make big hp. It's going to take a LOT if you don't get the car lighter. Does the car have wheelie bars, traction control, what convertor and boost controller?

 

[V8Assassin]

You boys are just too fast for me

I have a prediction for the next top gun of TSO, but I am not telling

 

[turbobuick]

Looks to be an exciting time 2010 for sure, with stock susp GN's. Jan and the crew at Xtreme are getting "Fear" ready to finnaly turn it up and hopefully see some 7's. Ya Never know what you got, until you push it, and we are about to find out next year. Not sure on a radial or slick, but probably a slick, until we have everything sorted out with getting the power down. Will get pics out of the stage 2 power plant first of the year. Chris, your going to be there no doubts, good luck. Our car right now is 3590 (i'm 200#'s) with me in it, wouldnt mind taking out a little weight myself to help out.

Couple of pointers that may or may not help from experiences I've picked up along the way. At 3590# and 160mph you are making 1147hp NET. To go 175mph at that weight you will need 1501HP at the wheel (probably even more considering Buick aerodynamics). That is close to 1800hp at the crank, might want to take some weight out!

1. If you are going to take a very large volume of air (enough to make 1700hp) and stuff it into a very small package (274CI) you will obviously need high pressures to do it. You need to look at turbo compressor wheels and maps and decide what is going to work best with higher pressures. IMO some of the new billet wheel designs from PTE are better suited at doing this than lets say an older design 91.5mm turbo that was likely originally designed for a large CI diesel truck.

Case and point; original T4 based h-cover PTE88 was a TVR series turbo off a 70's Detroit diesel and made 1200hp on a Buick V6. The new T4 PTE4788 using the same H-cover compressor housing will make 1400hp easy, BIG difference same size turbo. Even the newer but smaller PTE4276 will make as much HP as the old PTE88 with 12mm LESS inducer

2. Nothing is more important than the TQ conv in getting your car down the track. To run 175mph you need to look at your rear gearing and what your trap RPM will be. Unless you run the engine rpm to the moon you will likely need a short gear ratio to keep things in check. This is difficult to do at this power level and weight without the right tq conv. Make sure you have someone willing to work with you to get it done you may have to change it around a few times to get it right.

3. If you do try to run 175mph at close to 3600# let me know what you plan to use for injectors and a fuel pump

Good luck maybe we'll see you in the staging lanes in 2010

 

[HOT ROD-GN]

Well if your gonna run 170+mph you are going to have crazy boost and rpm regardless of the motor. I use to think the same about S2 heads but not so much anymore. I think with a limit on turbo size it may not matter. 175mph is definitely doable with production style heads and the billet wheel PTE4788. I've been 171+ so far and have room to grow. You have to be careful with the exhaust side on a production style head and cam timing plays a very critical role in the equation. Yes there is a weight break for production style heads in TSO BUT my car weighs over 3400#'s and is not taking advantage of the wt break.

Next year will be interesting. I believe Don Cruz and Ted A will also be running production style heads next year so we will have a good mix of S2 and stock style heads in the class. I think 7.60 ET's are obtainable but I'm not sure about 180mph, unless we drop weight off the class. It is worth mentioning that not only are these cars some of the fastest 10.5" tire stock suspension g-bodies around they are also some of the most powerful Buick V6's ever built. Tony and Dave are both making around 1700 crank HP

Look at the history of (tsm) 10 year ago nobody would of thought a stock block going (8.87)not me but they did..the way(tech is going .I see the stock style heads going(7.90s I truely believe Its going to happen next year:biggrin: And I also believe tony and dave will run(7.60sat180):biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Quint]

Looking at your signature, it looks like you have all the right pieces to make big hp. It's going to take a LOT if you don't get the car lighter. Does the car have wheelie bars, traction control, what convertor and boost controller?

Sorry for the delay. No wheelie bars, we havnt used the traction control(turbo doesnt spool like the 88's), Converter is from Dusty and its pretty right on, from what we have and from what Dusty says works. Any ideas? I dont think as have used the traction control, simply because we havnt needed too yet. I know once turned up where this car really makes power, well that may be a different story, but just dont know? Thanks for the advise if you have some

 

[Quint]

Looking at your signature, it looks like you have all the right pieces to make big hp. It's going to take a LOT if you don't get the car lighter. Does the car have wheelie bars, traction control, what convertor and boost controller?

AMS I believe, 5 stages. We changed it early Jan, so will have to double check. We took some time out from the launch to the first stage to help, havnt messed with anything else as of yet?

 

[Quint]

Couple of pointers that may or may not help from experiences I've picked up along the way. At 3590# and 160mph you are making 1147hp NET. To go 175mph at that weight you will need 1501HP at the wheel (probably even more considering Buick aerodynamics). That is close to 1800hp at the crank, might want to take some weight out!

1. If you are going to take a very large volume of air (enough to make 1700hp) and stuff it into a very small package (274CI) you will obviously need high pressures to do it. You need to look at turbo compressor wheels and maps and decide what is going to work best with higher pressures. IMO some of the new billet wheel designs from PTE are better suited at doing this than lets say an older design 91.5mm turbo that was likely originally designed for a large CI diesel truck.

Case and point; original T4 based h-cover PTE88 was a TVR series turbo off a 70's Detroit diesel and made 1200hp on a Buick V6. The new T4 PTE4788 using the same H-cover compressor housing will make 1400hp easy, BIG difference same size turbo. Even the newer but smaller PTE4276 will make as much HP as the old PTE88 with 12mm LESS inducer

2. Nothing is more important than the TQ conv in getting your car down the track. To run 175mph you need to look at your rear gearing and what your trap RPM will be. Unless you run the engine rpm to the moon you will likely need a short gear ratio to keep things in check. This is difficult to do at this power level and weight without the right tq conv. Make sure you have someone willing to work with you to get it done you may have to change it around a few times to get it right.

3. If you do try to run 175mph at close to 3600# let me know what you plan to use for injectors and a fuel pump

Good luck maybe we'll see you in the staging lanes in 2010

Thanks Chris. What you say makes sense for sure. I run a 3.50 gear, 277 cid, RPM in this car, where I shift at least is between 7500-7800. Its still making power as well, with out much drop, if any. I am not 100% for sure as to the RPM crossing the line, but I think its above 7000, but will ask Jan to pull data, I could be way off. You know I havnt even thought about injectors at my weight? Are there better ones at my weight. Good points made, thanks as usual. I have a call into Dusty to discuss options as he and I have already exchanged out a few times, and will again if need be. I do not have any fiberglass on the car, and its a t top car, so its heavy. I will try and get a number with no weight out, then go from there. I always wanted to take this car as fast as I could, from the way I bought it, when it was just a 12 sec GN. We will see, for I still have some things to figure out. Who do you know uses the traction control on their FAST systems? I know we have it, just never used it. I have heard of it actually slowing a car down.

 

[GNBRETT]

You boys are just too fast for me

I have a prediction for the next top gun of TSO, but I am not telling

Does his initials correspond with the location of the White House?

 

[HighPSI]

You have all the right pieces to go fast. Looks like you just need to start leaning on it.

Who do you know uses the traction control on their FAST systems? I know we have it, just never used it. I have heard of it actually slowing a car down.

That depends on which method you are using. If it is set up correctly, it won't slow the car down. I have heard of quite a few guys using it succesfully

 

[Quint]

You have all the right pieces to go fast. Looks like you just need to start leaning on it.



That depends on which method you are using. If it is set up correctly, it won't slow the car down. I have heard of quite a few guys using it succesfully

Thanks Cal. I take it your the guy who has tuned it right and knows how from your long list of stars I dont mind leaning on the car, but do want to make sure, im using all that's available to keep it safe and fast. Does the traction control help more at launch or right after launch or both? When you look at One of Tony's runs, you notice the car launch with wheels up, then down, the boost hits hard and bring the tires back up in the middle of the bounce/rebound. My biggest thing, is I dont want to lose control of the car all of a sudden, once the power is full tilt. I have come close, and had to get out of it, and done this a few times. I cowboy the car and get out of trouble, but lose a tone of et and MPH. I would have a much quicker et, if not for this happening from time to time, when I want to turn it up (anything past 25#'s boost). Thanks for you advise

 

[HighPSI]

Does the traction control help more at launch or right after launch or both?

Both. You need to look at all your data and determine the proper boost curve and traction curve.

 

[Quint]

Both. You need to look at all your data and determine the proper boost curve and traction curve.

Thanks, I will look into this.

 

[Chris Hogeland]

I know one more that might be playing in TSO

 

[lazaris]

I wouldn't classify myself as a GN so there are only 2 GN's that I'm aware of that have been 7's on stock suspension.

The are however G-bodies out there that will run or have run 7.20-7.40 on radials and stock suspension. I think John Balinsky went 7.2 or 7.3 at 194 or so with his turbo Cutlass. Several of us have the 1/8 times to run very low 7's if we ran it out the back so the chassis is very capable but the bodies don't seem to do very well in the 180+ range. The aero of these boxes doesn't handle well at those speeds. If I were to run 1/4 I'd be looking at getting the car on the ground and blocking off the grille area somehow. I'm going to try and do the grille area with my new set-up to keep all the air pressure from building up under the hood.

John has actually hit 198 mph this year.

 

[turbobuick]

We need a database

I am putting one together we are long over due for something like this for TSO. I have the 10 fastest TSO legal cars run in competition but I am also going to put together a list of the fastest 10.5" tire stock suspension cars out there. E-mail or PM you best time to the last digit and the date you ran it. Rules for the list are 8 sec or faster Buick V6 stock style suspension regal with 10.5" tires. I will post something this weekend.

 

[turbobuick]

I posted this on T6P.com since I am a moderator on that site and can edit and update the list. If I am ever allowed to moderate the TSO section here?? I will post it on TB.com.

Official 8 Sec & Faster Buicks on stock style suspension 10.5" Tires - t6p.com - Turbo Buick Regal Resource

There are two lists the official TSO Top Gun Point Series list and an Outlaw list. The outlaw list is very incomplete I know some on the list have been faster and I am missing a bunch like Roy and Laz's 8.40 pass, Cal Hartline's best, Lazaris and a few others. As soon as I get the info I will post it and update the list.

The TSO list should be pretty accurate as I took that from past records. For some reason I am missing MWBC 08 and do not have the exact time OC ran which I believe is his fastest in competition. If someone (or OC himself) could send me the exact time he ran I will update that also.

Rules for inclusion of the Outlaw list are 8 second or faster time slip Buick body/Buick V6 power stock style suspension 10.5" tire. Send info to mlyonsdc@yahoo.com or just PM. Please include full name date you ran and exact ET you ran to the thousandth.

 

[Quint]

Good list, Thanks Chris!

 

[turbobuick]

T6P

Here is a copy of the list as it stands. It seems some are having issues with T6P. Updates will unfortunately be done over there.

TSO Top Gun Point Series Fastest
Here are the fastest racers in the TSO Top Gun Point Series all times below were done during competition at a Buick event and in accordance with the rules.
1. 7.971@175.47 Tony Gomes TSO legal 5/31/2009 Fastest ET & MPH
2. 8.161@173.16 Dave Fiscus TSO legal 11/7/2009
3. 8.424@162.74 Ted Achtaz TSO legal 6/1/2008 Fastest stock style head in competition
4. 8.509@161.67 Gary Harmon TSO legal 11/7/2009 (76mm Turbo)
5. 8.579@162.02 Avon Throppe TSO legal 10/13/2007
6. 8.618@160.13 Dan Strezo/ Joe Lubrant TSO legal 9/09/2007
7. 8.683@163.24 Chris Lyons TSO legal 5/31/2009
8. 8.899@157.15 Willard Brown TSO legal 11/7/2009 (76mm Turbo)
9. 8.972@155.27 Jack Cotton TSO legal 10/13/2007 (82mm Turbo)
10. 8.9xx@158(?) Odell Cantrell TSO Legal 8/24/2008


TSO OUTLAW
Here is an Outlaw list of racers who have been in the 8's in a Buick with stock style suspension and 10.5" tire.

1. 7.971@175.47 Tony Gomes TSO legal 5/31/2009 Fastest ET & MPH
2. 7.987@176.74 Dave Fiscus 11/22/2009
3. 8.146@170.20 Chris Lyons 11/14/2009 Stock style heads
4. 8.260@ 168.49 Ted Achtaz 11/21/2009
5. 8.509@161.67 Gary Harmon TSO legal 11/7/2009 (76mm Turbo)
6. 8.579@162.02 Avon Throppe TSO legal 10/13/2007
7. 8.618@160.13 Dan Strezo/Joe Lubrant TSO legal 09/09/2007
8. 8.720@157.67 Big Will/Bill Anderson 10/21/2009
9. 8.751@160.11 Quint Clothier June 14, 2009
10. 8.811@157.15 Manual Espino 11/7/2009
11. 8.899@157.15 Willard Brown TSO legal 11/7/2009 (76mm Turbo)
12. 8.890@152.90 Don Cruz 11/6/2009 TSM Legal
13. 8.922@156.60 Billy T 9/21/2009? (76mm Turbo)
14. 8.955@156.021 Dick Kerney 12/16/2006 (109 Block)
15. 8.972@155.27 Jack Cotton TSO legal 10/13/2007
16. 8.9xx@158(?) Odell Cantrell TSO Legal 8/24/2008

 

[John Wilde]

Thanks Chris I was really hoping someone would do this.
Back when we had he email list I did a top 50 list on paper...LOL