wide journal in stock block question.

[TURBOELKY]

thought this would be the best place to ask...
will a wide journal crank/rods fit a 4.1 stock block?
there is somebody selling a wide journal crank and rods, but not sure if it will fit my block. Any help would be nice! thanks

and dont tell anybody I asked......

 

[Mac in SD]

thought this would be the best place to ask...
will a wide journal crank/rods fit a 4.1 stock block?
there is somebody selling a wide journal crank and rods, but not sure if it will fit my block. Any help would be nice! thanks

and dont tell anybody I asked......

The crank would fit, but the rods would have to be off-center, which they usually aren't. And to make on-center rods off-center usually involves grinding one side of the big end to narrow-journal width.

 

[Nasty Wendy]

DLS can hook you up with a wide journal crank and rods for your production block.

 

[TURBOELKY]

The crank would fit, but the rods would have to be off-center, which they usually aren't. And to make on-center rods off-center usually involves grinding one side of the big end to narrow-journal width.

huh, interesting. This guy may have off center rods, I need to call him. I was under the impression the crank would not clear the block or something. Thanks!!
so basically, if he has off center rods, that will work?

DLS can hook you up with a wide journal crank and rods for your production block.

I'm sure they got it, and its all good stuff. But I already have 6.5" carrillo rods, just need a crank. I know somebody with the stage crank and rods, but was not sure if they fit. thanks for the imput though! .....elky.

 

[Turbo Indian]

I already have 6.5" carrillo rods,

they are good for paper weights, and that is about it. I learned an expensive lesson about carrilo rods, and I will never use another.:wink:

 

[BlownV6]

they are good for paper weights, and that is about it. I learned an expensive lesson about carrilo rods, and I will never use another.:wink:

Thats a bold statement. 6.5 Carrillo rods work fine up to say 1000HP and possibly more with a good tune. Most all of the 80 and early 90s fast cars probably used these rods. However it became apparent that over that HP level was pushing it. The problem is not with Carrillo!! We took their rods that were designed for a 550 Hp normally asperated Busch Grand national engine and put them in high HP turbo engines. The combination of a long rod with a light beam wont handle the power. I seriously doubt that he is going to be able to push a 4.1 production block anywhere near that power level.
There are also basically 2 different beam designs that Carrillo used in Buick v6 engines. There is a lighter (Busch) beam and the much heavier (Indy) beam.
The Indy beam is normally 100+ grams heavier and will take considerably more power.
Trust me on this one, I also have torn up my fair share of (busch) rods before I learned my lesson and did more research to figure out why!!

Attached are pics showwing my progression up the rod chain for anyone intrested. Left is a Carrillo (busch) rod , Carrillo (indy) rod , Oliver titanium(custom) rod , Right is the rods I just received , Im currently working to get them into the crank/block. Hope this helps!! Mike

 

[Turbo Indian]

Mike I will agree with you on about 93% of what you said. but my mind is made up on to NEVER use another set in MY motors. I know a few folks that have had the 1000hp rods & they have broken about 1" below the wrist pin. but as for the chances of pushing a production 4.1 block past the point of breaking them, no, not going to happen.

 

[BlownV6]

This is good info for those on the learning curve. Me included!! Mike

 

[PHILBUILT65]

have anyone used the titanium rods in a street motor??? i have a set of new ones that say trc on them,narrow off center .

 

[TURBOELKY]

Mike I will agree with you on about 93% of what you said. but my mind is made up on to NEVER use another set in MY motors. I know a few folks that have had the 1000hp rods & they have broken about 1" below the wrist pin. but as for the chances of pushing a production 4.1 block past the point of breaking them, no, not going to happen.

THANKS for the info, but I do NOT plan on making 1000 hp. If I wanted to do that, it would NOT be with a v6 anyways...period! My goals are as close to 700 hp. My plans are a production 4.1, girdle, forged crank, my carrillo rods/indy rods...from the looks of the pics...right Mike??
forged pistons, and a few other "secretes" for strengthening the block...ALOT. I'm sure these carrillo rods are tougher than the k1 or scat rods right?

so basically back to my question, a wide journal crank with off center rods will fit a production 4.1 block? thanks for the imput guys.

 

[TURBOELKY]

have anyone used the titanium rods in a street motor??? i have a set of new ones that say trc on them,narrow off center .

start your own thread

I dont want my info side tracked.

 

[BlownV6]

THANKS for the info, but I do NOT plan on making 1000 hp. If I wanted to do that, it would NOT be with a v6 anyways...period! My goals are as close to 700 hp. My plans are a production 4.1, girdle, forged crank, my carrillo rods/indy rods...from the looks of the pics...right Mike??
forged pistons, and a few other "secretes" for strengthening the block...ALOT. I'm sure these carrillo rods are tougher than the k1 or scat rods right?

so basically back to my question, a wide journal crank with off center rods will fit a production 4.1 block? thanks for the imput guys.

There is no difference in the overall demensions of any of the RWD buick v6 cranks. Wide journal just means the rod journal is about .050 wider. Rear seal
may be an issue if using a crank out of a stage 2 motor. Im not up to speed on what is available for the production blocks. Hope somebody else steps in here on that subject.
Those rods you have will outperform the block!!! Mike

 

[Chuck Leeper]

Steve said: "I know a few folks that have had the 1000hp rods & they have broken about 1" below the wrist pin."
I think there are a couple contributing factors w/ this type of failure.
1. Off center imposes very high loads that do the "twist" to the area just below the pin. The "I" design does not provide as much support as the "H" design, in that area.
2. MANY of the hi HP engines we've all seen fail, did so w/ the Busch rods that Mike has shown. Not only lighter, but most were used when the old Busch, ASA engines were sold to the TR folks. [I had several myself]. Used for "only 2 50 lap qualifiers".. Ya, RIGHT!!

Back under my LSX....

 

[charlief1]

Thanks for the pics Mike. Now I know you sold me the indy rods and I'm not worried about my build.

 

[TURBOELKY]

Thanks for the pics Mike. Now I know you sold me the indy rods and I'm not worried about my build.

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