XFI Race gas C-16 to E85 results

[InjectConnect]

Just some info to pass along to fellow Buick enthusiast. At our shop on our Dyno Com Chassis sunday we ran a Turbo Buick V-6 258 cu in. M&A Heads, o
An older PT76 turbo not a GT, FAST XFI and all the normal stuff.
VP C16 race fuel 20 psi boost 24deg. timing 603.3 HP @ 5500 / 588.1 TQ @ 5300 RWHP
Switched to E85 pump fuel. Changed Fuel Energy Constant in the XFI Fuel Calculation Parameters, Ran again with no changes and the results were 657.3 HP @6500 / 619.7 TQ @ 5450
More power and lower cost. C16 $11.00 a gal. E85 $2.50 a gal. Engine warm up was slightly longer and we did minor tweeks to the idle and transient fueling no WOT changes. We are working with FAST to make the changeover seamless, just make the change with your optional thumbwheel.
Link to pics Injection-Connection

 

[Super6]

i don't have a Fast but was looking into this fuel for my car but i have a ME-R with wide band correction...what size injectors are you running? thanks Bob

 

[chevyII]

Would it ping with those same boost numbers with regular 93 octane? never would have believed that power gain. Any ideas about the theory?maybe the C16 isnt maxed yet?

 

[Craig Smith]

Bad ass! I like that. My only concern with E85 is getting the same blend consistently. Once I get past that, I will likely select this as the fuel of choice on my LS1 project.

 

[InjectConnect]

The C16 tunes was conservative on timing and A/F ratio. There is probably more HP there if we got more aggressive with the tune, how much more I don't know and will it be worth it. At 20-21 psi of boost this shows that C16 is not neccessary and the 105 octance that the E85 is, is enough. An engine will make more power with the least amount of octane that is required to eliminate detonation. The E85 cost 1/4 of the race fuel and makes more power at this level.

 

[Chevyv6282]

E85 will also blend with any other gasoline so to raise the octane simply add c-16 or whatever still cheaper than c-16 alone.

 

[WIKEDV6]

Great news!!! Thanks for posting the results. What was the increase in the volume of E85 over the C-16. I was told something like you would need 40% more E85 make the same result over gas, Is that true? Did you have to increase the injector pulse width to what %?

Thanks
Prasad

 

[XxDarkSidexX]

if there is a conversion for fast b2b? If so, could e85 eliminate an alky system??

 

[InjectConnect]

The increase in the volume of E85 over the C-16 was about 32%. The injector pulse was increased by the XFI when we changed the fuel energy constant. The A/F target also changed.

 

[Otto J]

Cool deal. I have yet to do any research on the E85.
Does it end up actually using more fuel?

 

[InjectConnect]

Yes about 32% more so you need to have enough injector & fuel pump.

 

[9SECVSIX]

Hi Dale..have a ?

The VP C16 HP is rated at 5500 RPM and the E85 rated at 6500 RPM is this correct or one is a typo Do you know what was in the motor for a camshaft? Thanks. Very interesting topic

 

[InjectConnect]

Actually that(603 HP) was the max HP on a slight boost spike (1/2 psi). It made 599.5 HP at 6500 rpm on the C16. Don't know the cam off hand, I can try and find out.

 

[FHW]

Dale...Chris
Noticed Injection Connection has a new location in Horsham,the new shop looks excellent,If i ever get back to the old neighborhood maybe you can update my tune on the fast bb from street to race,the g.n.has not seen more then 24psi to this day. Best of luck to you at your new location...Fred

 

[WIKEDV6]

Thanks for the info, What type of fuel lines and pumps are you using? Any special lines for E85?.

Thanks again
Prasad

 

[InjectConnect]

Prasad
Standard drag car stuff, Fuel cell, Pro series Aeromotive pump, -10 feed line, -6 return steel braid line. Most steel braid lines are good for alcohol.

Fred
Nice to here from you stop by any time you are in town again.

Dale

 

[bobc455]

If I didn't make the "energy constant" change, I assume the WB would try to richen the mixture (within the set constraints)? Or does the E-85 fool the O2 sensor?

-Bob C.

 

[protosy]

what would the process be for dfi gen vii? i have yet to fire it up on gen vii, but was thinking about doing this too......

 

[Craig Smith]

If I didn't make the "energy constant" change, I assume the WB would try to richen the mixture (within the set constraints)? Or does the E-85 fool the O2 sensor?

-Bob C.

Oxygen sensors don't really give a/f information in terms of numbers like 13:1 or 9:1. Deeper down than the software display you are reading, the value being worked with is a lambda value. Regardless of fuel type, a stoichiometric condition results is a lambda measurement of 1.00. As it richens, the lambda value decreases, and vice versa.

A/F information is given to the user by multiplying the lambda value by the stoich value for a given fuel. For a long time, it's just been gasoline, so we are accustomed to seeing a/f values in the 11:1 to 15:1 range. The energy constant feature (if I understand it correctly) rescales the a/f information you are seeing so that you get numbers that are accurate for the type of fuel you are burning. I believe there is more to it than that but this should explain how it helps the user.

Protosy, you should call DFI and tell them that FAST is doing this and now they need to as well. We had talked about it when I worked there but I don't know if it was implemented. It may have been done when their new wideband controller was released.

 

[bobc455]

Oxygen sensors don't really give a/f information in terms of numbers like 13:1 or 9:1. Deeper down than the software display you are reading, the value being worked with is a lambda value. Regardless of fuel type, a stoichiometric condition results is a lambda measurement of 1.00. As it richens, the lambda value decreases, and vice versa.

A/F information is given to the user by multiplying the lambda value by the stoich value for a given fuel. For a long time, it's just been gasoline, so we are accustomed to seeing a/f values in the 11:1 to 15:1 range. The energy constant feature (if I understand it correctly) rescales the a/f information you are seeing so that you get numbers that are accurate for the type of fuel you are burning. I believe there is more to it than that but this should explain how it helps the user.

Color me ignorant... if I decide to run some E-85, does this mean I'd have to change something in my program/tuning or not? Maybe target A/F ratios? Maybe just change my injector size in the program (10-20% smaller than actual) to fool it into adding extra fuel?

Sorry for silly questions...

-Bob C.
(p.s. I'm using the Speedpro controller so I don't have an energy constant number that I'm aware of)