10.99 on E85? Got a Couple Questions

[turbo89]

Better heads flow more air equals more horsepower equals more cylinder pressure regardless of boost. What gets in the cylinder is what lifts the head which equals hp which equals mass flow and it still has nothing to do with boost as a number. Champ irons allow you to a) make the same hp on less boost bc the engine eats betters or b) make more power at the same boost level assuming you weren't maxing out the compressor before at the same boost level. And yes, even the champ irons are what hold back the motor and allow to make "boost" at all; as you agreed, boost is just what CAN'T be taken into the motor.

Either way, boost is still just a number and an unopened engine at 30psi is less stress on head bolts/studs and head gaskets than a champ ironed stroker at 20psi with a big turbo.

How does it "EAT BETTER" if the valves are not letting the air through like you claim ?
your saying all the "PSI" pressure is built up in the intake and that the cyilnder is seeing none of it..

your saying cylinder pressure is the same @ 10 psi as it is at 30psi .. you may want to do look into this further as this is just not true.
there is a increase in cyclinder pressure with increased boost.

I mean by what you are saying is if you detonate @ 10 psi... and you detonate @ 30 psi .. the effect is the same because the cylinder pressure is the same @ both psi levels ... that is what your saying ..

 

[turbo89]

I know a car that made 300+ runs on a unopened motor with a 61 turbo that ran in the high tens. He ran high 20's to 30 lbs of boost on 116 in crappy Phoenix heat. The only people I would listen to are people who have accomplished what you are trying to achieve, E85 is different than race gas which is different than alky.

Sure ... I not saying its impossible or that people haven't done it ..
what I am saying is I wouldnt steer everyone in that direction and say HAVE AT IT as it will lift the heads and will stretch stock head bolts.

For every Car you guys say has done it .. there are 5 cars that have proved a stock head gasket / head bolts running that boost level doesn't work ... ESPECIALLY ON E85 !!!!

I am a huge advocate of E85 ... but I wouldn't have a customer turn the wick up to 30 psi on a totally stock untouched motor... thats just asking for it.

 

[krom]

Sure ... I not saying its impossible or that people haven't done it ..
what I am saying is I wouldnt steer everyone in that direction and say HAVE AT IT as it will lift the heads and will stretch stock head bolts.

For every Car you guys say has done it .. there are 5 cars that have proved a stock head gasket / head bolts running that boost level doesn't work ... ESPECIALLY ON E85 !!!!

I am a huge advocate of E85 ... but I wouldn't have a customer turn the wick up to 30 psi on a totally stock untouched motor... thats just asking for it.

No question about your logic, my backyard is the dumping ground for a lot of alky, E85 and race gas cars who thought they knew what they were doing, myself included.

 

[BEATAV8]

Sure ... I not saying its impossible or that people haven't done it ..
what I am saying is I wouldnt steer everyone in that direction and say HAVE AT IT as it will lift the heads and will stretch stock head bolts.

For every Car you guys say has done it .. there are 5 cars that have proved a stock head gasket / head bolts running that boost level doesn't work ... ESPECIALLY ON E85 !!!!

I am a huge advocate of E85 ... but I wouldn't have a customer turn the wick up to 30 psi on a totally stock untouched motor... thats just asking for it.

I run mine on E85

 

[turbo89]

I run mine on E85

Okey .. lets put a 60 lb/ min turbo on it .. crank it upto 30 psi .. you tune it so it performs optimum . then lets give it to a turbo newbie with a heavy foot for a while and let them run a few tanks of E85 through it .... I am sure it would go another 265K miles right

 

[BEATAV8]

Okey .. lets put a 60 lb/ min turbo on it .. crank it upto 30 psi .. you tune it so it performs optimum . then lets give it to a turbo newbie with a heavy foot for a while and let them run a few tanks of E85 through it .... I am sure it would go another 265K miles right

You bet.
Beat the hell out of it all the time. She don't complain.

 

[BEATAV8]

Might as well mention pulling 1.5 60fts on a bone stock suspension and rear end too......

 

[WIKEDV6]

I have known Steve for many years and I backup his claims and I have witnessed many of his 30psi plus boost going back the past 5 years. No BS there. We do have people here making claims of many things but when asked for data .. Nothing which tells me they are full of it . Just because some one hasn't seen it or done it , it doesn't mean it's not possible.

Prasad

 

[turbo89]

I have known Steve for many years and I backup his claims and I have witnessed many of his 30psi plus boost going back the past 5 years. No BS there. We do have people here making claims of many things but when asked for data .. Nothing which tells me they are full of it . Just because some one hasn't seen it or done it , it doesn't mean it's not possible.

Prasad

I know .. its like a single DW300 supporting 10 second times on 80# injectors

What are you insinuating Prasad ... just because I don't post up pictures and graphs or post up tunes that I am full of it ?

you get your car running yet ??

 

[BEATAV8]

I just because I don't post up pictures and graphs or post up tunes that I am full of it ?

You're getting warmer!

In God We Trust. All Others Must Bring Data.

 

[we4Mateo]

How does it "EAT BETTER" if the valves are not letting the air through like you claim ?
your saying all the "PSI" pressure is built up in the intake and that the cyilnder is seeing none of it..

your saying cylinder pressure is the same @ 10 psi as it is at 30psi .. you may want to do look into this further as this is just not true.
there is a increase in cyclinder pressure with increased boost.

I mean by what you are saying is if you detonate @ 10 psi... and you detonate @ 30 psi .. the effect is the same because the cylinder pressure is the same @ both psi levels ... that is what your saying ..

You're mixing around what I'm saying to suit your purpose. I'm saying a big valve, big head, modest cam, stage II with a 76mm or bigger compressor at 10psi has the same cylinder pressure and thus horsepower as a small valve, stock headed, unopened 109 at 30psi with any small frame turbo. Yes, cylinder pressure guess up with boost all else equal but def more on a good breathing stage II vs a unopened 109 thus why 30psi is so easy on the unopened motor. If all that boost made it past the valves, there would be no reason to upgrade the motor or cam or heads. Measure cylinder pressure, oh wait, we do that with a dyno or mph at the track, and again, stop telling your customers about a pressure reading taken at the throttle body that means nothing without additional consideration for the rest of the combo. Start teaching them about dynamic compression and mass flow and then you'll be onto something.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[WIKEDV6]

Lol.... It will be nice provide data like others do.. I know you help Tony with his car and all I hear is it's running like crap or blown head gasket like few weeks ago. I know you have been around the block but I see you making claims on a lot things but I don't see any proof all I hear is you've done it. Just a little data and proof is nice.. Only car I know that you help with is Tonys and he always have issues. You called bs on a guy that provided data so it just seem hypocritical .. Unlike you. I am not saying it's not possible but a little proof is nice. We are all here to learn and help each other ... As far as my car , who knows when it will be done but I have plenty of other turbo Buicks to drive around and before you challenge me to a race , those days are over ... I am just living my dream as I see it . It will get finished I when I feel like finishing it!

 

[turbo89]

You're getting warmer!

In God We Trust. All Others Must Bring Data.

All others MUST FIGURE IT OUT on their own ! ... It's not my problem they can't ... Data comes in a lot of ways... some is posting up log files .. some is seeing cars run on the street and track.. just like a DW300 is only good for high 11's and 400 hp !

and its comical that 3-4 of the same guys all point to 1 car running 30 psi for years and years and hundreds of thousands of miles ...
Sorry I just wouldnt try 100's of passes @ 30 psi on E85 and expect the gaskets to not let go.. and I certainly wouldn't setup a customers car to run on the edge like that... that's just asking for it.
anyone pushing almost 500 hp on stock bolts gaskets is playin with fire and that was the point of my post.

 

[we4Mateo]

... just like a DW300 is only good for high 11's and 400 hp !

...anyone pushing almost 500 hp on stock bolts gaskets is playin with fire and that was the point of my post.

1) No one is saying that.

2) You're right, you need to think head studs at 500rwhp, but 30psi on a TE44 or TA49 or TA61 will not get you there...

 

[turbo89]

Lol.... It will be nice provide data like others do.. I know you help Tony with his car and all I hear is it's running like crap or blown head gasket like few weeks ago. I know you have been around the block but I see you making claims on a lot things but I don't see any proof all I hear is you've done it. Just a little data and proof is nice.. Only car I know that you help with is Tonys and he always have issues. You called bs on a guy that provided data so it just seem hypocritical .. Unlike you. I am not saying it's not possible but a little proof is nice. We are all here to learn and help each other ... As far as my car , who knows when it will be done but I have plenty of other turbo Buicks to drive around and before you challenge me to a race , those days are over ... I am just living my dream as I see it . It will get finished I when I feel like finishing it!

You need to find out WHY he is blowing head gaskets .. and he can comment on that .. I will not ..But I suggest you have all the information before you make comments like that ..
Because if you knew you would have a lot of egg to wipe off your face
I tuned it last year .. it ran well .. he can post up times if he wishes but with a convertor that was locked from a bad solenoid and no boost off the line .. it made "OK" times. I know how I set the car up last year and I know what it would have run.. I gave it back to him with the ability to meet HIS GOALS and it would have if it wasn't for a 1.80 60 foot . Again he can comment if he chooses.

He made a few changes to it over winter ... again he can comment .. as its not my place... now it doesn't run well ..
I make suggestions .. sometimes people listen .. other times they don't ... when they DON'T .. the results are on them !
there is a reason some cars RUN and others don't ..

And you bring up the exact point .. his car I would never EVER setup to run 30 psi on because I know for a FACT that I will be helping him put in head gaskets AGAIN !

 

[turbo89]

You're mixing around what I'm saying to suit your purpose. I'm saying a big valve, big head, modest cam, stage II with a 76mm or bigger compressor at 10psi has the same cylinder pressure and thus horsepower as a small valve, stock headed, unopened 109 at 30psi with any small frame turbo. Yes, cylinder pressure guess up with boost all else equal but def more on a good breathing stage II vs a unopened 109 thus why 30psi is so easy on the unopened motor. If all that boost made it past the valves, there would be no reason to upgrade the motor or cam or heads. Measure cylinder pressure, oh wait, we do that with a dyno or mph at the track, and again, stop telling your customers about a pressure reading taken at the throttle body that means nothing without additional consideration for the rest of the combo. Start teaching them about dynamic compression and mass flow and then you'll be onto something.

Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

I am not changing anything .. you are the one that is trying to correct me in saying that cylinder pressure is the same on 10 psi and 30 psi ... I m just feeding you the rope ... your doing fine proving my point ...your now changing the story ... stay on track and back up your theory .. which Isn't correct which is why I am asking the questions.. sorry but what your saying just is not correct

 

[turbo89]

1) No one is saying that.

2) You're right, you need to think head studs at 500rwhp, but 30psi on a TE44 or TA49 or TA61 will not get you there...

No 500hp you need to start thinking studs / better head bolts which is close to what the guy posted @ 390 rwhp !

and don't change what was posted .. he had a TA 61 @ 30 psi .. which is what I commented about...

 

[WIKEDV6]

Hey Ivan, don't get your panties in a bunch man... I said that is only car I know that you helped tune... He always had issues therefore that is the only evidence that I can go by that's all.. No one said you can't tune ... All these years I've known tony,you guys have been friends and you help tune his cars and basically at the end, something happens and he parts them out... No one said it's your fault man so relax... I just never seen any of your cars run or any of your customers cars run. I am just speaking from what I know and heard from him. Tony never said it was your fault. All we were looking for was some data for all of your claims that's all and only car I know is Tonys!

 

[Bobby Smith]

I know Steve's car and I have been in it at 30psi call it what you will but when a car is tuned correctly it is possible to run a car hard like Steve does

 

[Bobby Smith]

In Steve we trust......because he brings data
And knows how to tune a Turbo Buick