Steve is totally full of crap!
10.99 on E85? Got a Couple Questions
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BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
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- Feb 14, 2002
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- 5,665
LOL!
jasjamz
THS Racer
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Calm all this bickering Gentlemen!
Play nice or I will kick all of you out of the sandbox....
To each his own....
Play nice or I will kick all of you out of the sandbox....
To each his own....
BEATAV8
The Engine Whisperer
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- Feb 14, 2002
- Messages
- 5,665
Mr 40PSI has entered the building!
jasjamz
THS Racer
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- Sep 30, 2004
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- 5,982
Impossible, but I have proof...
Impossible on E85, Gabby Made me do it!
I did it in preparation to take on TurboCliff's street car...
Steve knows his
. Prasaud is a Turbo Buick wealth of information and contacts.
Ivan, you seem to like to debate, show off some work. Actions speak....
Every car/woman is different!
Let's respect that and not become like the "other forums."
Cylinder pressure is the same at the two different boost levels BUT on the two different engines as outlined above. I'm still waiting for you to refute how cylinder pressure does NOT equal horsepower.
IF a stage II makes 500rwhp at 10psi than cylinder pressure IS at least very similar to that of a 109 engine making 500rwhp ven it it takes 30psi to get there; or whatever arbitrary boost number you use.
Are you saying when an otherwise built combo changes cam, makes the same power as before but at a lower boost level, that cylinder pressure is now also lower as a result of the lower boost? And if cylinder pressure does decrease as a result of the lower boost level, how is the car able to make the same power? I am actually very interested in your science on this.
Well what about an NA engine, wouldn't cylinder pressure be the same if you upgraded from stock heads to say AFRs? Yet more power.
Just a point i wanted to through out there, I'm a noob to these cars so I have nothing further to add or say
Well what about an NA engine, wouldn't cylinder pressure be the same if you upgraded from stock heads to say AFRs? Yet more power.
Just a point i wanted to through out there, I'm a noob to these cars so I have nothing further to add or say
No, cylinder pressure would go up as the engine would take a bigger breath on each stroke from the improved flow of the heads. The more that goes in on each breath equals the more pressure and power that will be generated when the proper amount of fuel is added and ignited. Since more air is going in, more fuel is needed too, so cylinder pressure goes up and BAM, more hp.
These principles are the same on a turbo engine. Compression ratio stays the same but dynamic compression would increase thus created more cylinder pressure as long as the exhaust side is capable of moving the extra air going out as well.
Awww man! Today is his b-day! I should be nice to him!
All kidding aside we're lucky to know Steve, and have a friend that is so willing to help, and teach us! My car is safely faster than it has ever been thanks to him! I'm around 28 psi on a stock unopened motor...
IT'S A GRENADE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The car you speak of was Chucks Car actually ..
And its funny as all of Tony's turbo problems started the Day he bought a car from you !! HE went to the track how you sold him the car and clicked off low 13's ...
I think he drove it 1000 miles before the motor let go... then another 200 miles after Gary redid a fresh motor before it locked up.
Which is Super IRONIC since it's that very car that after I helped him with the motor and tuned it back in the 90's ran 11.70 with the same few bolt ons on LOW BOOST .. and I don't know how many street races we won with that car after against KNOWN 10 second rides.
EVEN more ironic its that same car that went mid 10's on 80's and a dw300 pump .. which I own now... with the same shitbox problematic motor he had.
NO DFI.. NO GN1's.. NO ROLLER CAM.. NO 70 TURBO .. NO TH400 .. NO SWAMP DRAINER FUEL SYSTEM ... NO FRONT MOUNT
I sold the motor to another customer ( ON HERE) as a bolt in deal... HE ALSO runs higher 10's with it now !!
The car you speak of now was Chucks old blue T .. he dropped it off to me last fall .. after giving up on it as he was ready to burn it . Low Oil pressure.. No start at random times ..no vss..
heavy knock.. breaking up..loose accessory brackets.. fuel pump relay.. and I don't know how many wiring issues I corrected.
I HAVE TUNED this car ONCE ! last year ... like I said it ran "OK" for driving down the track with a locked convertor and not being able to get the car on boost.
I left some in the tune ... as I know better then to set it up on edge.
Fast forward to early this year HE made some changes to it .. some warranted some not .. he found a loose intake ( this was leftover from Chucks work). The intake gasket was destroyed..he replaced it.
He DISCONNECTED the Battery ( i.e. KILLING off my tune and defaulting back to the stock TT parameters) and proceeded to take the car out with the vanilla tune.. After beating on the car for a while trying to resolve a boost issue the car didn't run the same and knocked.
We went out for a quick spin few weeks ago again after he was having issues with it .... I datalogged the car and it was out of fuel causing knock ( dual intank WALBLOWS again setup as Chuck had it). I told him we have to figure out whats up with the fueling.. either a shitty pump or a hobbs not working .... Draw your own conclusions as to why things went south after he dropped me off
...but LEAVE my tune out of it when you don't know what the hell your talking about as it was the DEFAULT TT tune in the car when he popped the head gasket later that nite !!! You need to get the facts of WHY his cars don't run right , what has caused issues before you make implications and suggestions that are complete BULLSHIT !
I can not help it when customers do things that they don't understand the impact ... and I am really frustrated at customers when they decide to just not pay attention to what gauges say or
just lean on their car KNOWING full well that it ISN'T tuned.
IF I posted anything that is not 100% factual on here ... He can post and correct me .. as for your comment of not seeing my cars run or customers car run ... spend some more time on the street and race track ... going to BUICK CAR SHOWS walking around looking at cars is no joy for me . The guys I cater too are actually out proving it on the street . Besides who are you that I need to prove anything to
Impossible, but I have proof...
Impossible on E85, Gabby Made me do it!
I did it in preparation to take on TurboCliff's street car...
Steve knows his
Prasaud is a Turbo Buick wealth of information and contacts.
Ivan, you seem to like to debate, show off some work. Actions speak....
Every car/woman is different!
Let's respect that and not become like the "other forums."
Wait wait wait ... I didn't start anything here so please don't pin it on me .... I made a simple simple statement in comment to someone else's post on running 30 psi on a TA 61 with a stock motor ..
all I said was the stock head gaskets and bolts wont be happy for long and I got jumped on about cylinder pressure being the same on 10 psi and 30 psi followed by 3 guys that say 30 psi with a bigger turbo is a non issue and no problem for a stocker ...
I never said it wasn't possible.. I never said it couldn't be done .. I know its possible been there done that ... But I sure as hell wouldn't setup a customers car to run around on 30 psi on E85 and call it good.
You know as well as I do whats gonna happen .. and then its gonna be another thread about "YOUR TUNE"
Wow has this forum changed in 15 years
This is a good point. A lot of things have changed with these cars, especially in the last 15 years. You seem to tune by the old ways of doing things in the 90's. Do you still have customers raise fuel pressure after reading plugs?
You still haven't refuted how cylinder pressure is different on a 500hp stage II at 10psi vs a 500hp 109 at 30psi... Where does the power come from if cylinder pressure is not the same?
Haaaaa here we go again .. You are telling me to get my facts straight ? Maybe you should. Tony never bought a car from me. It's funny if that's the case, you can also claim that most people that buys the car in the chicago area buys it from me. People call me when they are in the market and if I know something is up for sale I will tell them. So I did not sell tony a car. Tony bought a car that was for sale at the time from someone. I had already sold the car I had for sale.... So get the facts straight my freind!
It's funny how you knock people that provides data and yet you can't . Forget customers cars how about your own? If you have done that people would have more respect for you unlike right now everything you say or claim is just like any other key board racer would say.
Prasad
It's funny how you knock people that provides data and yet you can't . Forget customers cars how about your own? If you have done that people would have more respect for you unlike right now everything you say or claim is just like any other key board racer would say.
Prasad
If it puts the injector in an area that it operates best at HELL YES ! .. most of the new injectors actually starting running the cleanest patterns at those "RAISED " fuel pressures... but some guys are so boxed in the old mentality of running 45 psi ..
I bet I can be closer on AFR by reading plugs than most of the crap widebands I see installed on these cars... besides a wideband won't let you check a specific cyl
If it puts the injector in an area that it operates best at HELL YES ! .. most of the new injectors actually starting running the cleanest patterns at those "RAISED " fuel pressures... but some guys are so boxed in the old mentality of running 45 psi ..
I bet I can be closer on AFR by reading plugs than most of the crap widebands I see installed on these cars... besides a wideband won't let you check a specific cyl
You bet what? And how will you prove it? I run less than 45psi of base fuel pressure; I'm out of the box too, but I suppose I'm not getting good pattern from my injectors and am a dummy to you. I tune for overall driveability and not just wot operation though. It's pretty easy getting the wot part right.
And you still haven't explained or refuted anything of value. Cylinder pressure on an N/A Stage II engine at 500hp, with obviously higher compression ratio, would also be the same if it was able to occur at the same rpm as a turbo application. Raising rpm for same amount of power would lower max cylinder pressure and be made up for through extra rpm. But, the N/A stage II, turbo stage II @ 10 psi, and 109 @ 30psi, all have similar max cylinder pressure if the 500hp is made at a similar rpm regardless of setup. Horsepower is horsepower as they say and that's what's hard on head bolts all else equal.
"Yes. 10psi on a stage II build will exert the same pressure on stock HGs as an unopened motor at 30psi. If you're lifting heads with a small turbo at 30, it ain't the 30psi doing it; it's a bad tune" This is what you said ... followed by "I can tell you that the air isn't making it past the valves so how is it lifting the head? If anything, we should be blowing intakes off at 30+psi!"
I replied on a stage II ... how can the load on the head gasket and head bolts be the same if it has 6 additional bolts and a thicker deck cylinder head and larger area to spread that load ! come on man be real here .
your also suggesting that additional boost isn't exerting additional cylinder pressure at all as its not making it past valves and is just build up in the intake .. THIS IS WHAT YOUR SAYING ...which is NOT RIGHT !
The cranking pressure alone will increase by the rate of the boost psi !!! because it actually is making it to the cyl past the valve !!!!! so if you had 150 psi of cranking pressure .. with 30 psi you will have 180 psi !!! WIth 15 psi you are doubling the charge over NA on the same motor .. with 30 psi your quadrupling it !!! this is just on compression ...
now we can get into the combustion side which is typically 4x ... that same engine starting at 150 psi compression would have 600 psi when combustion occurs .. now add in boost
180 psi would equal 720 psi ...
SO is 10 psi and 30 psi on a stock motor .. the same load on the stock head gasket / head bolts ??
delcowizzid
newzealand turbo 3.8
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2010
- Messages
- 503
power is all about BMEP brake mean effective pressure or in other words the average pressure over the full power stroke.use your octane level ,fuel ratio and advance curve to control your flame speed and you can make power without dramatically increasing maximum cylinder pressure .you could also make the power by cranking the advance in and causeing higher peak pressure and heat but thats harder on parts and head gaskets.thats s why e85 makes more torque and power on the same boost it burns longer on the downstroke
