12-13-12 Cause,Effect,Solutions? TDC moved

[HelloBozos]

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

Cause: pointer could have been moved or not set correctly in the first place. Effect: timing will be off. Solution: to get true TDC, pull the driverside head and bring the #1 piston to the top of its stroke using a dial indicator, then mark the balancer at zero.

 

[bogies87]

Timing chain slop?
I guess maybe i missed something here. I see pics but no symptoms. Was it running and now its not, is it running poorly? A little more info please.

 

[S10xGN]

The chain is out of the picture. TDC only relates to the piston's position, the balancer (& it's key), and the pointer mark. Like poster #2 said, roll #1 cylinder to TDC and recheck the balancer mark. It could be the marker was off, the crank key sheared, or a rod got bent.

 

[HelloBozos]

Sorry bout that, It wouldn't let me type after adding the photo's. The Car ran great before an was in perfect timing,this a brand new build, I did a fake slalom course in the road, the car died fire wise, then backfired hard, even with the key off. What's photo'd is two different finger over the #1 plug hole key turning results (coil unplugged) . The motor won't fire on all cylinders no matter what's done to the Cam Senor. You can get it to idol, but it idols at 500rpm an sounds like a diesel. I'm looking into key-way breakage next, then compression test. Hoping for quick solution, over the front cover having to come off. In that case ,i'm yanking the motor out.

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

Well since you mentioned the car "back fired hard" i would pull the crank pulley and balancer and see if the key is still attached to the crank. and also check for any damage to the balancer key slot. if all looks good i would check the crank sensor, and again the cam sensor...who set the zero on the balancer was it you and if it was are you sure its the correct TDC mark becaus i see a few marks there

 

[fastblackracing]

The finger over the hole deal is tough to get stoped at tdc unless you use that to get close and then place a long philips screw driver in the cylinder and manually turn the motor with a ratchet while feeling the screw driver go up and stop then back down----- go back and forth a few times and you can get real close this way within 2 degrees once you get a feel for it. It helps to have all spark plugs out while doing this. Now about your possible keyway deal I have seen two times key issues, the first one the cam gear assembly on a roller cam was not machined right and did not hold cam gear tight, the gear cracked and the cam would rock back and forth like almost 1/4 turn.........The second one had to do with the wrong keys being used in the crankshaft they were not deep enough and the crank gear basically sheared them off causing major problems. Let me what you find here good luck.

 

[getdowngranny]

I had the same thing happen to me on a solid roller BBC it ended up being that I sheared the key on the balancer and it ruined the nose.

 

[bogies87]

After reading about the symptoms, i am agreeing that the key is likely sheared.

 

[HelloBozos]

Ok, update,Crank key-way's fine, Balancer hasn't spun, The motor's at 10* where it should be,Compression check was 150-155 across the board. The car will run at 1300rpm if you pedel it, if you don't it'll die,still not on all cylinders... trouble shooting before this was brand new acdelo ign. module/coil pack,crank sensor/splice connector,IAC,TPS,XFI 02,using the same cam sensor with LED (it blinks still). I'm now looking into the XFI going into a by-pass mode? Open to all idea's . Did i slalom to hard an set off the oil presser switch? I had fuel,it was Ignition fail that started all this. My XFI was sent out to F.A.S.T for updating an Cal has programmed some values i needed before this odd fail.

 

[S10xGN]

Ok, update,Crank key-way's fine, Balancer hasn't spun, The motor's at 10* where it should be,Compression check was 150-155 across the board. The car will run at 1300rpm if you pedel it, if you don't it'll die,still not on all cylinders... trouble shooting before this was brand new acdelo ign. module/coil pack,crank sensor/splice connector,IAC,TPS,XFI 02,using the same cam sensor with LED (it blinks still). I'm now looking into the XFI going into a by-pass mode? Open to all idea's . Did i slalom to hard an set off the oil presser switch? I had fuel,it was Ignition fail that started all this. My XFI was sent out to F.A.S.T for updating an Cal has programmed some values i needed before this odd fail.

What's this 10° business? It should be exactly under the pointer, right? The comp. test rules out mechanical problems so be looking for sensors, wiring, ECM, etc...

 

[XXQUICK6XX]

Cam sensor. Pull the cap 2 phillip screws, and check to see if you can turn the interrupter. RJC has a repeir kit if it broke the tang, http://rjcracing.com/product/cam-sensor-repair-kit/

 

[TurboBuRick]

Or try a different cap all together.

 

[HelloBozos]

Me an Cal had the cap off,we even loosened main bolt for the sensor its self an tried to get the timing back. We could never get the car out of a retard condition. Looking into EST circuit now or i still possibly twisted the cam.

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

So what did Cal say..Are all your numbers where there supposed to be in regards to FAST. Do you have a new timing chain on there. not sure if it would be possibel that when you backfired you skipped a tooth and now your retarded (no pun intended)

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

HelloBozos...I just saw your link on your build on the car..Brother your car is outahand..its Badass ..I live in Hunters Creek, we need to hangout. Sorry didnt mean to get of topic..Still curious on what Cal said

 

[HelloBozos]

I'll find tomorrow. It's Motor or Senor/wiring or XFI box in wrong mode, I got two more things to try, new Det. Sensor,new Cam senor cap.
The motor won't advance.Runs retarded an not on all cylinders.
(i'm in Dr Phillips,You in the CFGNT club? http://cfgnt.com/ )

 

[FASTV6HENRY]

i talked to eddie and dues are up the begining of the year, but soon will be. its hard to get out on saturday nights for the meets because i work weekend nights at NASA.. i am leaving out of town for two weeks, but when i get back i would like to see your car, mines is currently going back to together in my garage trying to get it ready for the old town show in feb.

 

[HelloBozos]

i talked to eddie and dues are up the begining of the year, but soon will be. its hard to get out on saturday nights for the meets because i work weekend nights at NASA.. i am leaving out of town for two weeks, but when i get back i would like to see your car, mines is currently going back to together in my garage trying to get it ready for the old town show in feb.

I've been paid up for years, but never at the meets, hate going with no car,Hopfully thats changing...8^)

 

[bison]

If it runs without advance and not on all cylinders then you have at least 2 problems there and they probably arent related. I had an xfi chit out on me and would not go into est bypass. I was able to get it to run and idle and drive but the timing was stuck at baseline. Comp couldnt explain why only that it needed a new board. Needless to say i was very pissed that i had less than 50hrs on the box and it did this costing me $800. I actually had sent the box back to them twice for this. The first time they missed it. The second time i talked to the tech. It appeared to only be an issue in the Buick sfi mode.