2004R Shift Trouble

[Craig]

On the 1-2 shift it's slow to go into gear, just kind of slips into gear.
On the 2-3 shift it flares up before going into gear. Under normal street driving
it's fine, shifts are nice and firm. It's just under hard acceleration of say half
throttle or more that it acts up. It has a manual valve body in it so it's not a
TV cable problem. Any thoughts or suggestions?

 

[bison]

List your mods. What other mods have been done to the pressure rise system in it? Do you have a good pan and bottom feed pickup in it?I would call Chris at CK and order a recalibration kit from him. Its easy to follow and will help if you havent smoked it yet. You may have burned the band some and the 2-3 flair is a common problem that has been discussed on here many times. Do a search and you will find lot of threads on it. I personally dual feed all my 200-4R's and the flair is never an issue anymore.

 

[Craig]

A recalibration kit isn't going to help any, it's already got a manual valve body.

 

[bison]

A recalibration kit isn't going to help any, it's already got a manual valve body.

Whats in the valve body then? I could put a manual valve body in a stock GN trans and put it behind one of my engines and smoke it on a few or maybe one pass. Most of the recalibration has to do with the pressure rise, which by the way sucks ass with the stock BRF configuration. I forgot to ask which valve body you are using. Im assuming its a BR. I highly recommend you call one of the sponsors on the board to discuss this problem. You could have crossleaks also. Try and get some pressure readings and post them.

 

[Craig]

It's a TCI valve body, full manual, reverse pattern.

Had the transmission out today. There's was alot of clearance in the
forward & direct clutch packs. Set them to the specs according to CK's
manual. Everything else "looked" to be ok so put the transmission back in the
car and it's still doing the same thing, only not as bad. I also put new
gaskets on the valve body thinking that may be the problem.

I didn't check the pressure yet, that's the plan for tomorrow

 

[Craig]

1-2 shift now seems ok, still has a slight flare up on the 2-3 shift though

 

[bison]

If your experienced with automatics then i would buy a billet forward drum and dual feed the directs. You will be able to cure all 2-3 flare problems with the dual feed. Follow the instructions in the manual.

 

[SVORay]

Where is a good place to buy a dual feed for the 200-4r? Also do you have any links to info on it? I did a search on it but it doesn't really answer my questions.


Thanks

 

[WE4]

This simple.

Where is a good place to buy a dual feed for the 200-4r? Also do you have any links to info on it? I did a search on it but it doesn't really answer my questions.


Thanks

1) Leave out middle rubber seal inside the direct drum
2) Leave off the middle ring on the center support.
3) Block the hole in the rev feed hole, or to rephrase, the hole on the drivers side of trans center support bolt.
Done!

Simple deal

Bruce
WE4
www.PTSXTREME.com

 

[Craig]

I am planning on putting in a billet drum over the winter, just don't have the $$ for it right now.

I think I read somewhere before it's not recommended with the stock drum. Correct?

Also, isn't dual feeding just a bandaid for a problem? Dual feeding doesn't
actually tell me what the problem was/is.

 

[Ttype6]

Dual feeding doesn't actually tell me what the problem was/is.

Good point. I could never get a dual fed setup to work to my satisfaction. Too much bind. Too much bang. When I set up my servo,I put washers in between the third accumilator piston and the servo apply piston to shorten the servo travel during a 1-2 shift. I like it to travel as little as possible. I set it up so tight that I can barely get the snap ring back on and can hardly turn the driveshaft backwards by hand. This gives me the best 1-2 shift. Perhaps you already do this. This could possibly have a good effect on your 2-3 shift flare,depending on how bad your 2-3 shift timing is. If your getting a flair during a 2-3 shift,the band is getting knocked off before the third clutches can apply.There are two ways to adjust this timing problem.The first thing you could do is tighten the clearence in the third clutch pack. This will make the third clutches apply faster. I see that you've already done this.The only question is,what did you set the clearence to? A good clearence is .040".The other thing to do is increace the amount of time it takes to knock the band off. I'm assuming you're still using the stiff G.N. servo return spring.The spring is there to help knock the band off during a 2-3 shift.If you remove the spring,the band will knock off slower. Will it slow it down too much,creating a bind during the 2-3 shift,or will it still not slow it down enough to get rid of the flair compleatly. If removing the spring slows that event too much you can use the return spring out of any 2004r that has a servo smaller than a G.N. It's been my experience that increcing the time it takes too knock off the band isn't the best way too cure a flair. We don't need to slow things down,because that burns clutches.I prefer too solve a flair by tightening the clearence in the third clutch pack. Since you have the trans back in the car,you'll at least want to try removing the servo return spring. You should notice a difference,in wich case you'll learn something. The only question is,will this adjustment be too little or too much?

 

[Craig]

The clearance in the direct clutches was set to .040".

There is no return spring in the servo, according to TCI's instructions with the VB, it's not used.

 

[WE4]

You are correct in all aspects.

I am planning on putting in a billet drum over the winter, just don't have the $$ for it right now.

I think I read somewhere before it's not recommended with the stock drum. Correct?

Also, isn't dual feeding just a bandaid for a problem? Dual feeding doesn't
actually tell me what the problem was/is.

Dual feeding is not a requirement. Just ask Russ Merritt. :biggrin:

Hope this helps
Bruce
WE4

 

[SVORay]

1) Leave out middle rubber seal inside the direct drum
2) Leave off the middle ring on the center support.
3) Block the hole in the rev feed hole, or to rephrase, the hole on the drivers side of trans center support bolt.
Done!

Simple deal

Bruce
WE4
www.PTSXTREME.com

Hey thanks.

I've been scratching my head over that one looking for some kind of kit lol This will be the first atemp on a gear box rebuild and still have tons of stuff to research before it takes place.

 

[Craig]

Well I checked the pressures. Out comes the transmission LOL

Park - 210PSI
Reverse - 175
Neutral - 175
1st - 175
2nd - 160
3rd - 150
4th - 150

 

[bison]

Those pressures are to low to effectively work the hydraulics at WOT. They are probably even lower under load on the 2-3. There are just too many areas there for the pressure to leak. I would look at getting a new pump assembly unless you have a lathe and a surface grinder in your arsenal. As stated above dual feeding is not always necessary but it sure improved the direct clutch life in anyones trans i have done it to. Getting the shift timing (band release and direct apply) takes a little effort but is well worth it. The GM forward drum is not a quality piece. Not worth the risk of breaking it to find out you should have replaced it imo. I wouldnt dual feed without the billet drum. If you get a little bind up at WOT the shaft will quickly fail. I also disagree with setting up the band clearance so tight that its hard to turn it over by hand. With it that tight a lot of drag will always be there unless the band is applied. It could even burn the band at high speeds. The amount of time it takes the pin to travel another .030-.040in is almost nothing. The 3rd accumulator hole should be opened up and use a stiff return spring on the servo assembly till the bind up is cured. As far as flare goes without dual feeding, i have noticed different amounts (none to some)even with the same clearances, builds and pressures just by switching nothing but the case! Use solid sealing rings whenever possible. Be sure the bushings in the drum are in good shape. Any worn out bushings need to be replaced or you will get even more leakage at the center support worsening any flare you might have. Be sure to check the center support for leaking hydraulic circuits while its on the bench.