6265 dbb or journal bearing...

[prostock555]

getting ready to order a presicion 6265 turbo i would like to know which one would hold up better dbb or journal this car is a street car that may see a occational trip to the track planning on driving this car 1500 miles one way this summer. is there any real advantage to the dbb unit over the journal with the exception of quicker spool up for the added 600.00 in price.... alittle about my combo .040 stock stroke,billet caps,champion irons,206/206 billet roller,t&d rockers,fully ported intake,ptc 10 inch 3200 converter...thanks a bunch guys..

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Theoretically the BB turbo will hold up better as long as the oil isn't contaminated and you feed it the proper pressure. It's not as susceptible to the lower levels of ZDDP in oils like Journal Bearing turbos are too so that's another plus aside from the quicker spool up.

If you can afford it and plan on running that sized turbo for many years, it makes some sense to go DBB.

 

[prostock555]

6265

thanks a bunch as you can tell i have been leaning towards a bb turbo i just needed a little push)) thanks again..:

 

[bison]

I would plan on switching to a 9.5" ptc or you will drive right over you current one once you have enough power to go low 11's or faster. 6265 equals mid 10's. If you plan on slower than that I'd run a smaller turbine.

 

[prostock555]

combo

yes i here you all this grand national and turbo stuff is new too me i just got rid of a tube chassis 68 camaro powered by a 567 big chief 14 degree motor so big cams lots of compression is what im used too thanks a bunch...

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Make sure you confirm the restrictor fitting is in the turbo, what size it is and thread, just so you know. Also, IMO running anything larger than a -3an feedline for a BB turbo is totally pointless and contributing to failures. I literally run a -3an Brake Fluid Line to my journal turbo with the Turbo Protector, easy install and line is not going to leak or blow apart. Russell Performance 656040 - Russell Competition Brake Hose Assemblies - Overview - SummitRacing.com

The PTE oil relocator Turbo Saver Kit, Precision Turbo & Engine, PTE-TSK | Cotton's Performance Buick Grand National Parts & Service (not sure what part of the country you're from but support your local GN vendor )
or the Buick GN Turbo Protector TURBO PROTECTOR KIT
are mandatory when running a BB IMO, you can't afford for the bearings to eat any contamination since they're so expensive vs Journal rebuilds.

 

[bison]

Theoretically the BB turbo will hold up better as long as the oil isn't contaminated and you feed it the proper pressure. It's not as susceptible to the lower levels of ZDDP in oils like Journal Bearing turbos are too so that's another plus aside from the quicker spool up.
.

Could you elaborate on this? I've never seen or have evidence that low zinc oil will shorten the life of a turbo. After break in I don't use a zinc additive and have not experienced journal failure on anything I've run and some were small shaft p trims shoved in a t3 cartridge. About the most strain you could put on a t3 journal but still had no failures. Every bad journal I've seen is from dirty oil. Typically the bearing housing is scored up and the bearing full of metal. Usually the thrust bearing too. The turbine shaft usually survives it. Most oem turbos are bronze journal collar bearings and they dont fail. There is no rec for oil additives in the owners manuals for those cars either. If zinc was necessary they would surely state it.

 

[prostock555]

turbo

yes they told me to run a number 3 line what should i run on the return side to the lifter valley stock?

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Prostock, run the stock return or the bigger returns from GBody or BuickGN.

Hey Bison, ya there is a shop called Forced Performance that's not just a retailer for turbos they're more along the lines of Limit Engineering. Anyways, they put out this tech bulletin and it makes sense and am curious why PTE never made any comments on the new oil levels of ZDDP since a lot of their turbos get hammered in the Import Market for bearing failures. It seems their T3 shafts have the most issues and this could be a reason since that's the most popular in the Import World.

http://store.forcedperformance.net/...Performance Recommendations for Motor Oil.pdf

Some of these new oils are around 800 ZDDP and Buick wanted 1800 levels in 87 so it's probably best if we at least run oils like Brad Penn etc that are in the 1500 range to be safe. I had been running the GM EOS but will probably just go Brad Penn and stop the bottle.

 

[2QUICK2B6]

no one sells brand penn here so i use royal purple it has alot of zinc in it and can be ran with flat tappet cams

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I used the Brad Penn locator and my Meth guy is also a Brad Penn dealer, success.

Brad Penn Locator

 

[bison]

I used the Brad Penn locator and my Meth guy is also a Brad Penn dealer, success.

Brad Penn Locator

The oils spec'd for 1987 needed high zinc for flat tapper cams where there is direct metal to metal contact. Zinc is more for anti scuff. In a turbo there us clearance between the parts and a film of oil between them so when they are spinning there should be no contact between the parts. No contact equals no wear. I've never had a journal failure. I had a turbo spool with no oil pressure/flow and it only hurt the backing plate where the rings seal it. The journal bearing on the ex side had a polished look so I replaced it and the other end was a ball bearing. The shaft was fine.

 

[prostock555]

zddp

i agree with bison, i work in the oil industry, and the only reason there is less zinc in the current off the shelf oil is because most auto companys are using roller cams and followers, and most recent there cutting even more because the zinc in the oils are affecting the catalytic converters, and for that reason the epa is mandating less zinc so its forcing oil manufactures to work with the auto companys to come up with soulutions. but once again i appreciate all the advice givin thanks.... and by the way shell rotella t has about 12 to 1300 ppm for those of you looking for less exspensive oils..

 

[GNVYUS 1]

I take it you guys say FP's findings are not accurate then?

They didn't lean towards it being anything else and they build, design and rebuild turbos for a living. I don't see what they gain by telling customers to use higher ZDDP levels in oil, they actually lose rebuild customers running their FP line.

I agree though that we'll probably never see that issue here as look at the test they put it through. Very few will ever re-inact that test in their GN unless a vendor was willing to do that and I doubt it.