A question for all the Law Enforcement members

[Homeskillet5]

ok, i'm not goin into detail.....but lets just say i've had a few run-ins with the police lately (minor traffic stuff). as well as some of my friends. anyway, with each encounter i have...and the ones i get told about, it seems as if i'm always fightin a losing battle as far as what cops can and can't do.

so my question is, where can i find out what rights i have as a driver. like what the rules are with searching on probable cause. or where i can pick up a copy of all the vehicle traffic and safety laws.

thanks for any help you guys can give me...and feel free to ask any question if you don;t quite understand what i'm asking.

 

[Fakeyankee]

Guess your in the S**T with the locals !! First off......you must have made an impression on them that they would never forget ( Maybe a little disrespect in thier direction ? ) Second... sometimes a little respect goes a long..long..Way !! Not saying you did anything wrong but first impressions go a long way ! Sorry to say but if " The man" has it out for you, not much you can really do until you face the judge. Cops are suppose to uphold the laws of their jurisdiction as they are sworn to do. But in a nut shell.... Law officers have the authority to cite and or arrest at any time if they feel you are not compliant with the law. It's up to the courts jurisdiction to find if you were guilty or not. A law enforcement officer can cite you for as much as he wants, up to an including arrest !! If you have a personal problem with the officers in your town, and you feel you are being targeted unfairly or being profiled.......You have to substantiate your claims and present evidence as such to a court of law. This usually means lots of money for lawyers for representation. My advise ?? Maintain a low..low.. profile, stay away from those who will take you down with them, and cover your 6 and 12. If you are beyond this, then your going to have some real problems in the future. Hope this helps and I wish you luck !!!

 

[dgreen1069]

Your question is a bit vague, but I'll try to answer the search question. If an officer has P.C. to believe that a crime has occurred (such as smelling marijuana or observing a concealed weapon) they can search your car without your consent or a warrant. If your car is being towed for any reason (license is suspended or vehicle unsafe to drive) the officer can again search your car without your consent or a warrant. Because vehicles are mobil and can easily dissappear, they do not offer the same 4th amendment protection from search as a home. You still have rights, just not as many as you might think. An officer may not search your vehicle just because you are being cited for a traffic violation. I hope this helps. Merry Christmas.

 

[Homeskillet5]

i'm not really being harrassed or anything. cause each incident has happened in deifferent parts of ny. and although i may seem like they typical teenager (19) i give police the up most respect and try to be as nice and cooperative as i can(even though it never really helps my case)


let me try to re-phrase what i was asking for

example: you get pulled for speeding....am i allowed to ask the cop to see the radar slip on the spot? if so...where in the rule books is this written..so i can have a copy for my glovebox. just cause everytime i ask a officer for some clarification on a rule...he always seems to make up some reason or excuse for him to do whatever he pleases.


one more thing start talking ppl....i see 65 looks but only 2 replies? cmon now..we can do better than that

 

[Fakeyankee]

Never seen a radar gun that prints out the mph logged, but I got to say that ( not trying to put ya down either ) since your only 19 and your questioning the officers truthfulness and integrity in what he states your speed was.......your already asking for trouble !!! If you want to know the local traffic laws, then I suggest you go to the library and study the traffic ordinances for your state. Apparently you might have a run of bad luck. Remember that these guys have a job to do and most do it by the letter of the law. Yes...there are a few bad apples out there but IMO it was just a matter of bad timing on your part. I wish you luck and remember you are responsible for your own actions. I tell my own sons this all the time !!!

 

[87grandnat]

dont know if its like this everywere, but i have heard down here you are allowed to ask for there gun calibration paper and if they cant show it to you or its not upto date they cant give you a speeding ticket.

again its just something i have heard, i have never tried it.
Joshua

 

[badboy86gn2]

Ive asked the same questions when i was your age....

heres what ive learned

1. you have no rights period
2. just like stated only selected few (rich,political)have rights
3. police is a job i highly respect (high stress levals ect...)
4. POLICE DONT MAKE THE LAWS JUST INFORCE THEM

I can go on forever in the stuff i see go on as a firefighter we work hand to hand with police I hate to tell you but what the guys said up top are right on

as you get more years under your belt youll understand how the "system" works and how far you can or cant go with issues but for now id go with it

Johnny

If your not talking.... your listening

 

[Homeskillet5]

i guess its just frustrating when an officer (who should be setting an example) can get in your face and lie..not only at the scene, but also in the court under oath. but i know i can sleep at nigt cause i had a witnes on my side that always know the real story.

also you guys can save your breath on the respect bs..

i'm an eagle scout and i live by the oath and law, plus i'm an assistant scoutmaster for troop near where i attend college..

so i know who is who in this world.

 

[Drac0nic]

Cops are a funny beast, I've had it go both ways. I've had ones who I treated respectfully (and know of previous speeding infractions on their part) and still have gotten tickets, then there are others who while confront is too hard of a word, I questioned what they were saying I did (hey, I saw the guy in my rear view why would I be 15 over like he said, not the 5 over I was doing) and didn't have anything happen.
I also asked the bloke to see the gun, but that's a state law from my understanding. There are times when they have you by the balls, and others where it can be fought. He was "tailing" me, which IMHO isn't exactly gonna be that hard to beat in court, what's to say his speedo is off, or he was actually inching forwards rather then pacing properly?
If one of them wants to search my car, I'd ask what their reasoning was, and if they couldn't give one besides something dumb like "you've got nothing to hide right?" I'm not gonna give consent. Doing that can open a whole can of worms, but I've also got free legal services through the university I go to, and universities tend to be very liberal in general. Don't be disrespectful, just decline to give consent.
In conclusion, I would like to say that I have next to no gripes with the law enforcement officers of my area, they aren't perfect but they're mortal men and women trying to do a job. If anything most of the officers are just curious about the antennas on my vehicle (ham radio operator) My biggie is that the cops in my area break so many traffic laws, practice what you preach damnit. I've seen em just plain be at a red light, see no one coming and drive through it, and many, many other minor offenses.

 

[BandAid]

Dont even get me started............................Ohh this is gonna burn a hole from not commenting about cops

 

[WFO]

Respect is earned,not awarded.

Just because some guy has a badge doesn't mean I have to treat him like he's god.If he treats me in a repectful,decent manner I will reciprocate.If he acts like an arrogant,power hungry ass then I have the right to tell him how I feel about him.

 

[dgreen1069]

Usually, you do not get the opportunity to see your speed on the radar. The speed can be locked on the set, but most states require that you do not lock the speed so there is a tracking history of the vehicle you are citing. In addition to radars showing speed, they also give off what is called a dopler tone....it goes up and down with speed. An officer can tell which car the radar is observing by the tone of the dopler. Example: Most drivers hit their brakes when they see a police car. When they slow, the dopler signal changes and the officer is now certain who he was looking at. The same thing happens when a vehicle passes through the radar's tracking zone. This is what is known as a tracking history. As far as getting to see any documents on the radar, you pretty much are SOL until court. Radar sets are tested for accuracy before and after tours of duty by either tuning forks or calibrated speedometers of cruisers. In court you can ask to see the calibration slip for whichever system was used to test the radar in your case.

If you get stopped by someone using LIDAR, there is a good chance you will get to see your actual speed. Lidar does not require a tracking history because it is vehicle specific. As soon as the trigger is pulled it displays a speed and distance for the car it was pointed at.

In VA, LIDAR and RADAR are prima facia evidence that you were speeding. As long as the officer did what he was supposed to as far as testing for accuracy, it is virtually impossible to beat the ticket. I hope this helps, Merry Christmas.

 

[Homeskillet5]

thanks for some insght guys...i guess i'm right when i tell everyone that cps can do whatever they please

and i belive in the same thing as WFO. repsect is earned not given.

plus...how come none of our police officer baord member ha ven't chimed in WakoSS i'm looking in your direction

 

[Buick From Hell]

From a law book I used to have, so don't blame me if it's wrong <grin>

It's perfectly within your rights to ask the officer to see the radar gun, because the gun is "your accuser". Beyond that, go to court. If the officer did NOT let you see the gun's displayed speed, be sure to point that out. And it's required by law that after every citation, the radar gun MUST be recalibrated, and a record of all such calibrations be kept. Be sure to ask in court for the calibration records.

-or- just pay the ticket!

As for vehicle search, what a catch-22 that is...

an officer must have probable cause to search. But if there IS no probable cause, all the officer has to do is ASK if he can search. If you decline---there's the probable cause! If you don't decline, you get searched anyway! So basically, they can search any one they want, any time...

 

[Fakeyankee]

Originally posted by WFO
Respect is earned,not awarded.

Just because some guy has a badge doesn't mean I have to treat him like he's god.If he treats me in a repectful,decent manner I will reciprocate.If he acts like an arrogant,power hungry ass then I have the right to tell him how I feel about him.

Sure...I agree with ya, Give out what you get. But in all reality, smart mouthing a cop will get you locked up sooner or later !! Thats just the way it is !! I'm retired Law enforcement... believe me , I know !!

 

[dgreen1069]

Just to clarify a few things, most radar sets are two or three piece units....KR10SP's, Hawk, and Eagle sets far out number hand held radar guns.....most sets cannot be brought to someone to show them their speed. Police officers never calibrate or recalibrate RADAR or LIDAR sets. All they do is test them for accuracy...and it is not after every ticket....it's tested before the first ticket of the day and after the last.

It is true an officer can search a car with probable cause or consent. It is not true that saying no to an officers request equals probable cause.....if you say no to a consent search and probable cause does not otherwise exist, an officer cannot search your car (unless it is being towed).

 

[gn4u2c]

Hmm.. just got a 71 in a 40 friday night myself. No way I was going over 55 .It's dark (9:30) cop walks out in the street with a flashlight to pull me over (wtf)I was super nice to the officer. And it did no good. All he wanted to do was walk around my car 30 times and ask how dark the tint was(legal) how I got through inspection with the loud exhaust. (stock with chrome tips) why my left taillight was dimmer than the right (new lense on one side old on the other). It was total drama shining the light all over the car inside and out. This took about 25 min in that time 2 other cops cars drove by and they had to chat.
They were using someones driveway for a radar hideout. Finaly the guy who owned the house came out and told the officer to get off his property, he was not welcome to use his place as speed trap. I guess after 25+ min of light flashing outside he was getting pissed.
So I sign the dam speeding ticket and off I go.

Cops are like anyone else ya got some nice guys and some real dikcs.
Being young with a fast car is never going to help you if it was a local cops all the time I wouls suggest some diffrent wheels for your car and go get a new set of tags.

 

[dgreen1069]

GN4u2C is dead right.....percentage wise, police departments have just as many a-holes as everyone else. Unfortunately they are in a position to make all cops look bad. Most cops don't like writing tickets.....like everyone else, there are parts of their job that they have to do whether they like it or not.

 

[gnxtc2]

There 2 main reasons that I won't allow anyone to the radar reading, whicj I don't even lock the reading
-You get out of your car and you get waffled by an oncoming car, guess who is at fault, not you and I'll bet you all the money in the world you are going to sue the PD for letting you out of the car, right????
-Safety

Yes, there are some bad apples but majority of us are good and all were doing is our job that we took an oath upon. A PO has alot of discretion, you challenge it, then its a losing battle.

Anytime a person mouths off to me, it's then the power of the pen.

I get more complaints from traffic violators than a person I arrest with CDS, assaults, shoplifting, etc.

If you get a summons, don't argue with the PO on the road, call the telephone number on the back of the summons and set up a court day. 9 out of 10 times, it will get dismissed or get downgraded to a lesser, non-point charge.

You think we like to write summonses, I know I don't, but that is part of our job.

When you get stopped, do you get out your car and approach the PO while he is still in the car? If so, bad move-stay in your car. Or do you say to the PO that approaches and requests your paperwork "what did I do" Think hard, there has to be reason that your being stopped, maybe you the PO wants to inform you that your brake lights are out, and when he approaches you, you give him an attitude.

Where I work, everything is mic'd and videotaped. Don't even think of filing a complainant with the PD to try and get your summones dismissed, it doesn't work. You might even wind up with some more, in NJ, we have a 30 day statue of limitation on the lesser violations and 1 year of the more serious ones.

I'm a car person. Where I work, the next town over is the main HQ for Ferrari and a Mallit authorized Cadillac dealer. The other day, I seen a Mallit CTS driving and I stopped it. Not for traffic violations, I wanted to check it out, it sounded awesome, had a nice high lift cam in it. The Ferrari guys test drive the F40s, etc on the street prior to them being shipped out. Check them out also.
So it's not what it all seems. Bet your a$$ if any of the above drivers mouthed off to me, there're going to get a summon(s).

I could keep on going, but I said enough.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[JoeNational]

You know even though I am not a fan of tickets I agree with you Bill, when i get pulled over all i do is keep my mouth shut and have my stuff ready for them before they even get to my car, i must say though i do not get pulled over often thank god. But when i do i dont do anything that stands out, so if and when i have my court date they tend to not remember me from the 2 months ago they pulled me over. one time i got pulled over for supposedly doing 70 in a 50 which i no i didn't. I asked the guy for the radar print out and he said he cannot give me one, which is true you can however request one in court. but i did nothing else just kept my mouth shut which by the way is impossible for me. then when we got to court 2 1/2 months later the judge turned to him and the cop said "I do not recall" Judge: "dismissed" maybe i just got lucky or my theory actually worked who knows. let me tell right now i dot not agree with the seatbealt law, why should i get a ticket when I am not endangering anybody else's life. anyhoot never mouth off cause you more than often get a hot headed cop who thinks his poop dont smear when you wipe. you know the kind.