Advancement of fuel delivery?

[Dusty Bradford]

They would still need to cut cylinders to supply oxygen to kick off the als since the gasoline molecule carries with it zero oxygen. This type of erratic oxygen supply is what causes the erratic combustion in the exhaust system or what's commonly referred to as the pop and bang. Or, they could be routing a constant supply of air to the exhaust system through a type of air injection system, if they're even attempting to create an als.
This is the beauty of nitrous with methanol. The nitrous and methanol molecules both carry oxygen. Nitrous is 30% oxygen, methanol is 50% oxygen, so when these molecules make it through the combustion process and hit the heat of the exhaust system, they dissociate and have then created their own oxygen supply. The oxygen supply to the als is replenished with every cycle of each cylinder, so the oxygen and fuel supply to the als is consistent and creates a smooth and stable als reaction. Except for a louder and rougher tone to the exhaust, you wouldn't know als was occurring.

The trick is lighting off the als, maintaining the reaction for the needed duration, and supplying and maintaining the proper mixture for the duration so that by after the turbo all fuel has been consumed, hence giving a 14.64:1 perfect burn reading on the a/f ratio meter.

Yes, the cylinders are still being cut while on the 3 step and 2 step. They are using this strategy while on the 3 step when the footbrake is still activated and then transitioning to the normal high timing once the boost reaches a certain level.

 

[Alky V6]

Imagine being able to have als without having to cut cylinders. That's what this is.

 

[Chevota]

Don - I'm happy to report that the affects are the same with ethanol when using a low timing/ rich mixture to decrease spool time. The additional exhaust volume is very apparent. Even at an idle I can make the thing sound like a top fueler just by lowering the A/F.:biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Don - I'm happy to report that the affects are the same with ethanol when using a low timing/ rich mixture to decrease spool time. The additional exhaust volume is very apparent. Even at an idle I can make the thing sound like a top fueler just by lowering the A/F.:biggrin:

Excellent!
I was wondering if you'd be giving it a try with your creation. Are you going to make it tomorrow?

 

[Alky V6]

When it comes to judging the rating of a nitrous shot by the feel of the launch, I'm a complete rookie. Judging from the latest video, it most definitely is not the full rated 305 hp shot. If it were, I would be expecting to leave the crankshaft on the starting line.
I've used a drag sim to try to match actual past real world performance of the car and it suggests that, out of the 'jet size rated' 305 hp nitrous system that I'm using paired with methanol, it's actually yielding only the equivalent of a 50 to 75 shot at the initial hit of the system. This pretty much follows the present day understanding of the effectiveness of pairing nitrous with methanol. It also would suggest that much of the remainder of the hit is going into the exhaust to fuel the ultra smooth anti lag system. :biggrin:

Forgive me if I gloat. But, if I had listened to the vast majority of you fellas and taken on all those safe middle of the road suggestions, this major discovery would have never happened.
Funny. Don't ask me why, but I always felt that I'd find something to make it all work. I'm just glad it was so simple.
Simple in execution. Not so simple in concept.

 

[Chevota]

Excellent!
I was wondering if you'd be giving it a try with your creation. Are you going to make it tomorrow?

I was unsuccesful in trying to get out of going to work tomorrow.

 

[Alky V6]

I was unsuccesful in trying to get out of going to work tomorrow.

Well then, I guess I'll just have to carry the torch alone again.
Wish me luck.
Going in.

 

[charlief1]

Good luck Donnie. Tell us how you do tomorow.

 

[Chevota]

Well then, I guess I'll just have to carry the torch alone again.
Wish me luck.
Going in.

Carry the torch alone?? Are you the only turbo'd vehicle in S.D? When is the next Barona event? I'm going to go ahead and swap in the 9in before I do any serious testing. BTW, I recieved an amusing phone call today regarding some local GN owners that spotted me driving the truck around the pits at Irwindale last night. I was only there to seat the rings, check for leaks, and nail down the fuel map for driveability(more on that later) Apparently they noticed the front end wasn't as low as it used to be(downpipes), and stated that I'd "never break into the 4's" with the current ride height So, my advise to you Don, if you ever wanna catch that "waskily yellow wabbit", lower your GN another inch......
GOOD LUCK!

 

[Alky V6]

Carry the torch alone?? Are you the only turbo'd vehicle in S.D? When is the next Barona event?

You'd be surprised. It's as if turbo is a dirty word. Plenty of old school n/a.

The last race of the year is next Saturday. Two Sats in a row. After that, Jan. 9th is the first event in 2010.

edit: Hah! I think you pretty much took care of any chance of me catching that waskily twuck. I'm content picking on old school n/a big block stuff. There are a few fellas that I've forced to step it up, because, good forbid a V6 beats them.

 

[Alky V6]

First run today netted the best 60 foot so far with the 91mm. A 1.49. Still no spool valve being used. Nitrous on-time before launch was .91 sec. The ET and mph aren't going to mean much since the tires spun through all of 2nd gear. I let the tires spin for a little over 1 second (1.1) before finally getting out of the throttle and short shifting to 3rd. Still a 6.369 @ 116.62.
Next Saturday I'll be throwing the spool valve into the mix.
Where this combination before was providing 125 kPa by a little over 5200 rpm, now is giving me 125 kPa by 4675 rpm. The als has made quite a difference. Really, more than I had expected.
The rpm and map rise was very smooth up until the 1-2 shift. The pull at the launch was smooth and better than I've felt since switching from the 76mm. A nice surprise for once.
The als, evidenced by the 14.64 lean signal was very stable up until the wall. I'm still leaning out the wall little by little. It's now even with the fuel curve just before it. Next time out, it should start looking like a downward dip rather than a wall. I'm going to keep leaning it until it doesn't kill the als any longer.

A new major challenge has surfaced. Getting the amount of boost under control for the 1-2 shift. Now that boost is building up quicker, the boost is reaching an even higher level by the 1-2 shift. It'll just be a matter of finding the right control pressure number with the boost controller. The first run was set at 20 for the 1-2 where the tires spun, the second run was set at 16 and still spun the tires. The next run will be at 10 psi control pressure.

A successful test session. I haven't had a day like this at the track for quite a long time.

 

[Alky V6]

I didn't get a video of the test runs this Saturday. Didn't have anyone there to hold the video camera. The launches must have been noticeably better than they lately have been because all day the award winning spectators (the ones that are always there) were coming to my pit to ask what I did. They were saying things like, "Hey, you fixed it. Looking good. The car should be back in the 5s soon." They remember when the car used to regularly get in the 5s with the T76.

And then there were the tuners that were nonchalantly attempting to pry out of me the tuning changes that made such a drastic difference in the way the car was working.

Let's not forget the voicetress experts (the naysayers) that would tell me and everyone else that I would never get that big turbo working with that small engine, that were surprisingly... hanging out quietly in the corner. Gotta love it.

 

[Chevota]

AMS1000 correct? Gear or time based?

 

[Reggie West]

I put a video together of my preliminary testing of the Nitrous/Methanol Anti-Lag System.

YouTube - Discovery of the Nitrous / Methanol Drag Turbo Anti Lag System

I didn't get a video of the test runs this Saturday. Didn't have anyone there to hold the video camera. The launches must have been noticeably better than they lately have been because all day the award winning spectators (the ones that are always there) were coming to my pit to ask what I did. They were saying things like, "Hey, you fixed it. Looking good. The car should be back in the 5s soon." They remember when the car used to regularly get in the 5s with the T76.

And then there were the tuners that were nonchalantly attempting to pry out of me the tuning changes that made such a drastic difference in the way the car was working.

Let's not forget the voicetress experts (the naysayers) that would tell me and everyone else that I would never get that big turbo working with that small engine, that were surprisingly... hanging out quietly in the corner. Gotta love it.

There is always great satisfaction in proving every one wrong isnt there?

Good for you Don.

Pretty amazing what you are doing on Methanol. Pretty versatile fuel.

Th

T

 

[Alky V6]

AMS1000 correct? Gear or time based?

Time based. I'm going to cut pressure before the 1-2 shift. Where in the time line will need to be figured out through trial and error so that the pressure bottoms out on the target pressure in enough time for the 1-2 shift. I don't want to catch the pressure still dropping as I make the shift, or have the pressure bottom out on the target too much before the 1-2 shift and waste et time.

The pressure will start high (20) to eliminate any chance of wastegate creep so I can get the quickest boost rise, then the pressure will drop for the 1-2 (10) and shoot back up for the rest of the run (29). I'm not sure how fast the control pressure will react, but I'm going to give it a try.

I'm sure I'll have to play with the controller strategy. This is a start.

edit: On the second run where the control pressure was set at 16, the boost overshot by 46 kPa. The target boost pressure for the 1-2 shift is 200 kPa. I may need to back off the wastegate adjustment too.

 

[Alky V6]

There is always great satisfaction in proving every one wrong isnt there?

Good for you Don.

Pretty amazing what you are doing on Methanol. Pretty versatile fuel.

Th

T

Funny thing is, I was never worried that I may have made a mistake by going with the 91mm. Don't ask me why. I always knew I would get it figured out. Not as fast as I had hoped, and still not where I want to be, but land is now in sight.

This was with a tuneup that simply confirmed that the als was indeed real. Now that I know it's real, I can start working the fuel map more to take advantage of the affect. And, let's not forget the boost valve that's waiting in the wings. Now the fun begins.

 

[Alky V6]

Titan uses nitrous and methanol on their 94mm equipped Scion which is somewhere under 200ci. I've seen the system work at the track.

I looked up the Titan video again to study it and it appears they're still using the familiar 2 step with the pop and bang routine.

 

[Dusty Bradford]

They are trying for a very consistent launch. The car will 60ft under the 1.0 range. They still use a 2 step and boost control method to get the repeatable launch.

 

[baadgn]

They are trying for a very consistent launch. The car will 60ft under the 1.0 range. They still use a 2 step and boost control method to get the repeatable launch.

Obviously this is working for them and they are running a 94 turbo and 200 ci they have figured somthing out!!!!!!

 

[Alky V6]

Obviously this is working for them and they are running a 94 turbo and 200 ci they have figured somthing out!!!!!!

Hmmm. Very good point.

Maybe I've only tripped on the tip of the iceberg.