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SignUp Now!All this said, I still run his kit. Why? I have come up with work arounds for most of the short comings. The ones I haven't solved, I have "fixed" by adjusting my driving habits. Ultimately the only major issue I have left is the de-priming problem. I have "fixed" this by recognizing the conditions that have likely de-primed my system. This is still a major major problem. Beyond that, leaky pumps (not exactly razors fault since shurflo makes these pumps) and flickering low alky light when not low are my only problems.
Like I said before, I've worked around the rest with engine management, but I believe there are better alky kit options that offer much better tunability.
There's a lot of hype surrounding razor's kit but I dont think it's any better than any of the major kits out there. The only benefit to his kit is that he provides instructions for a somewhat stealth install specifically for a turbo Buick. Actually if you want to just jump on the bandwagon or not engage much thought into the alky process, keep it simple, its probably the kit for you.
I think I'm probably more familiar with how his kit works, and how alky injection works in general than most. I have had his kit apart I have bench tested it.. I know how it works. it does a job but I would hardly call it over engineered or even say that it does its job very well. In fact it is well well well behind what the other alky systems are capable of in terms of technology. Razor just has a strangle hold on this forum and though I harbor no ill will toward him or his products, I think that he is simply resting on his laurels. I would be the first one to commend him if he stepped things up a few notches.
Any thread that comes up about alky kits is the same, little technological info and a lot of bandwagon.
When you absolutely depend on your alcohol kit to work you start to notice the shortcomings, and I have personally had a kit from him that worked intermittently. If I wasn't keenly observant as to the warning signs I might have driven over my crank. He was very gracious and provided me with a new kit but it was quite obvious that his stuff was being left behind and that there were issues that have not been discussed.
Perhaps the absolute most major issue is the evaporation or siphoning of primed alky lines on a highway driven vehicle. Here in California this is a major problem since we tend to cruise on a freeways for extended periods of time. Perhaps solenoids could alleviate this problem, maybe insulating the lines may help. As for now after some time on a free way I have to prime my alcohol system. I have had several pumps and have disassembled them and they are not internally leaking. If it were a pump issue the system would lose its prime over night which it does not do.
Externally is another story. Every pump has eventually leaked and my methanol is from sealed 5 gallon drums from well known fuel suppliers (so I don't think contamination is a major issue) . I have come up with work arounds to seal my pumps at least temporarily (though my fixes have held so far)
As far as tuning goes, I would hardly call the razor kit the racers choice considering the alternatives, you have only one input with the razor kit, boost. This can make transitional tuning very difficult if you don't have an efi system that furnishes you with good work arounds.
There are other kits out there that use more than one input and are scalable. For example, from a roll, full throttle kick down, you will come up on boost very fast and a transitional lean condition is likely to occur since the pump will only react after it has seen boost and has overcome internal inertia, started pumping, and has moved a column of fluid out of your alcohol nozzles, and that alcohol arrives at your cylinders.
By then, its too late, you probably already hit 25 psi at your map sensor, and THEN the alcohol pump reacts. Not good. If for example you had an rpm input you could conceivably anticipate these types of situations and have alcohol flowing before boost hits your map sensor. That's just one example.
I actually attempted a work around with a WOT microswitch that was more or less a brute force fix that ended up making me to rich on a standard launch.....
Pablo, no bandwagon here, I have one of Razors original kits, I repalced the pump, and Julio sent me the upgrade pac(did not install). I still use the old style with no issues running faster times than this gentleman is looking to run. Customer support and knowledge of the Buick turbo V6 is bar none. I wish all products i buy would have customer service like this. This is worth the extra money to me. It is not rocket science, just adding something to suppress knock at a higher boost.
Pablo, no bandwagon here, I have one of Razors original kits, I repalced the pump, and Julio sent me the upgrade pac(did not install). I still use the old style with no issues running faster times than this gentleman is looking to run. Customer support and knowledge of the Buick turbo V6 is bar none. I wish all products i buy would have customer service like this. This is worth the extra money to me. It is not rocket science, just adding something to suppress knock at a higher boost.
If priming loss was to become an issue for me, where in line would you suggest that check valve be placed?
I have a knack for turning things that are not rocket science into rocket surgery...![]()
....even tail pipe removal...![]()
Poor guy. You sound like someone I know.
Thanks for the offer. Your welcome to stop by anytime. I'll let you know the next time I take it out.Let me know if you need some help getting your GN ready for the next race!:biggrin:
Thanks for the offer. Your welcome to stop by anytime. I'll let you know the next time I take it out.
Pablo, a simple check valve on the nozzle may solve the depriming issue your having. Coupled with a change in material of the pumps check valve. Insulating the pressure hose will also help with the issue. As what may be happening is your boiling the alcohol in the lines.
I made a delay for the low level senders whereas it only activates after the sensor goes down for an extended time.. 5 seconds. I announced it on the forums.. everyone at the time said they liked the blinking as it gave an indication how much they had left. This is one of those I dont see a fix for.
Glad you have my system, if you have any issue's with its operation, please contact me and I will do whatever it takes to make it rite for you.
As far as your tunability statement. It is my belief your off on this. Due to mechanical limitation of any kit produced by anyone on the planet. Distance of nozzle from port vs mechanical time to pressurize.
Your computer is your limitation. 25 year old computers have their limitation, doesnt matter what is piggy backed onto it. Newer technology($$$) has the ability to correct any air fuel shortcomings. This I have proof of. An XFI, BS3, GenVII, Motec, AEM, etc.. pics up the ball and runs with it.
As far as a 11-12 second street car.. a chip on a 25 year old computer works really well. Splitting atoms trying to get higher resolution.. then the limitation start showing up. Alky or not. C16 or not. I have seen plenty of cars running the very best of fuel, the very best computers, the best tuners.. blow their gaskets out. Anyone around these cars long enough watching them run will see that. The faster the car is.. the higher likelyhood of an issue sooner than latter.
Hope this helps.
Placed my order with Razor today.
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Wow...really?
Cool!
You're a brave man, Donny!
Uh....Before I actually touch your car...can I get you to sign a legal document that releases me of all liability for anything that happens after the moment I touch it?![]()
You did notice how I kept my distance from it at Fontana and Bates, right?
There's a very good reason for that distance....![]()
So a fixed amount of alky at a fixed amount of boost.. dial in the air fuel with your injectors. Easy. 9's are yours
Pablo sounds like you have all the answers... why don't YOU build kits and make all the $$$ ??? 9s easy ???? SHOW MENO...NOT on paper or the woulda coulda shoulda's..
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Actually, I don't think Pablo stated that. It was presented as a quote from something Julio posted.