Another 9 second Turbo Buick

[turbo89]

Hey my pump is 12 years old BUT it only has 258 miles on it.. Plug wires are good !! Look at em. What are those wires hangin there ?? Oh I forgot to tape them up. ummm what did they do ?? Ohh I think it was an alarm and a stereo

We laugh .. but the reality is its true

I cant tell you how many times on cars that have just what you described that ive heard "just put a tune on it.. i'll fix all the little stuff later" .... um guy its not even tuneable with all that crap going on!!!

Im checking out here but i'll say this..

If you want to hit the EASY BUTTON at the expense of not maximizing your setup ... chip it .. set it forget it easy peezy

If you want to roll your sleeves up and want 100% of what the CAR is capable of ... standalone

Now days you can pretty much leave cost to the side as its not a huge spread

Its all about time investment

 

[ttypewhite]

Once the car is in tune which can be done on a stock ecm or aftermarket ecu,the main issues are not correction factors/processor speeds.

I respectfully disagree with that statement. Processor speeds are a main issue. The faster you go, is the faster things happen. Take a datalog from a 10 sec car, then take a datalog from a 9 sec car in "real time" and look how fast the cursor is moving. The processor speeds are what is trying to keep your motor alive by staying current. If things are happening with too much of a delay, your not getting a true correction and risk some serious damage. That's why cell phones are always coming out with better processors to handle things quicker/faster and more efficiently. I don't care who's car it is. They are never always in optimal tune. I datalog constantly and always make revisions to my tune based on the discrepancies in gas octane levels at the pump, weather and mechanical errors. Too many people are blinded by tunes and figure because it's been tuned I'm safe. Then blame the tuner down the road when things go sour.

 

[ttypewhite]

X2 Mike... I am a chip guy > I am old . Don't like change. Ya know a Grumpy old man. Russ went to a Fast system on Melissa's car a few years ago. Both Melissa and I were dragging our feet to stop him. Ok let me get the crow sandwich I am now eating. INFO INFO INFO !!! Its the name of the game as ya go faster /quicker. Hell Melissa knows more than I do on it ! I guess ya call it progress Don't tell anyone I told you this

Your secret is safe with me Dan. lol

 

[Mr.Spool]

I respectfully disagree with that statement. Processor speeds are a main issue. The faster you go, is the faster then happen. Take a datalog from a 10 sec car, then take a datalog from a 9 sec car in "real time" and look how fast the cursor is moving. The processor speeds are what is trying to keep your motor alive by staying current. If things are happening with too much of a delay, your not getting a true correction and risk some serious damage. That's why cell phones are always coming out with better processors to handle things quicker/faster and more efficiently. I don't care who's car it is. They are never always in optimal tune. I datalog constantly and always make revisions to my tune based on the discrepancies in gas octane levels at the pump, weather and mechanical errors. Too many people are blinded by tunes and figure because it's been tuned I'm safe. Then blame the tuner down the road when things so sour.

Yes a 9'sec car is moving things faster,but the stock ecm is fast enough to handle 8/9 sec cars proven.if processor speed is the wall then anyone who attempted would fail.

 

[Mr.Spool]

Oh I forgot to tape them up

Yup they need to upgrade to wire ties

 

[Mr.Spool]

I mean hell, I'll bust out the old classic Nintendo

Hell yea

 

[ttypewhite]

I will leave something here as food for thought for who ever wants to accept it. Stock ecu is dated technology, the o2 sensor is even worse. A one wire o2 with a narrow scope for tuning. Standalone ecu's have better internal processors and heated 5 wire o2's that broaden your tuning platform and range. Running 9's ain't cheap....neither is replacing or fixing a blown motor.

 

[Mr.Spool]

and most would like their O2 correction to have a much wider spectrum to correct

Some don't use correction and put cushion into the tune

 

[Street Lethal]

I think the guys on this board who have experimented with serious weight reduction may truly know the limitation of an older ECM by looking at what changes in the datalog from each individual cylinder. At a lesser weight it takes less horsepower, but at 3500 pounds it takes a lot. Things seem to get a little dicey at 700 and 800 horsepower during quench. This is why I brought up Nelson earlier, he was seeing some funky things occur at that power level and up with the air/fuel in each cylinder, and pretty much underlined the need for individual cylinder control to make it at least last...

 

[87GN_Bart]

Cal Hartline has tuned on my car and i can only say he is worth every penny. Cal knows the value of faster processing and the features for making more power while keeping the motor together however he said if i turn it up more i could make more power. The question is what do you want, on the edge or something that will stay together it's up to you.

Anyone who is happy with their chip car God bless you it's always your choice, there is a difference with after market ECM whether you believe it or not.

Mustangs, Chevy, chrysler cars and imports all use the new computers Fast, Motec, Big Stuff, Holley and the list goes on for after market ECM there is a reason.

 

[Street Lethal]

Can't find the other video with Nelson using a fuel injected setup, I'm not sure if it was XFI either, but he does also mention the importance of individual cylinder correction from a carburetor perspective as well, just correcting it the old fashioned way in this instance, while showing just how drastic the differences in the cylinders can be. Start it at 5:55 rather than sit through the beginning;

 

[Mr.Spool]

but he does also mention the importance of individual cylinder correction from a carburetor perspective as well,

That's individual cylinder tuning. egts in each port and Tuning each cylinder.

 

[Street Lethal]

That's individual cylinder tuning. egts in each port and Tuning each cylinder.

No no, I know about individual cylinder tuning, was just pointing out that the stock ECM can't handle that, and it's there in which the XFI shines. Prior to individual cylinder tuning, when a cylinder blew most people just assumed the rod itself was the cause, or that the piston couldn't take the pounding, not realizing the vast differences in temperature due to the varying air/fuel per cylinder. Years back members would argue that home porting was detrimental and that CNC porting was where it's at, assuming when they seen 11.0 on the wideband that all cylinders were reading that with CNC parts, but that is definitely not the case. This is where the XFI shines over the stock ECM, and offers a critical safety net.

 

[Mr.Spool]

I don't care who's car it is. They are never always in optimal tune

Respectfully no way can I agree.i had a car here that would cruise at 14.5/14.7 didn't matter if it was 80 or 50 degrees out.wot targets 9.9/10.0 range that never changed.i pulled lots of plugs on that car and they were never fouled out or lost much off the gap.this was a maf car.inmo they keep a tighter afr on the street.the car was so consistent the only thing I looked at was fuel pressure as long as that was where it needed to be the car ran great.

 

[Mr.Spool]

No no, I know about individual cylinder tuning, was just pointing out that the stock ECM can't handle that

Stock ecm is not going to everything for sure and it has to be handled a certain way to get results.one of which is knowing the limitations.op posted a 10.3 afr on a stock ecm no fancy individual cylinder correction and a 9 sec pass and this has turned into an xfi thread

 

[ttypewhite]

Respectfully no way can I agree.i had a car here that would cruise at 14.5/14.7 didn't matter if it was 80 or 50 degrees out.wot targets 9.9/10.0 range that never changed.i pulled lots of plugs on that car and they were never fouled out or lost much off the gap.this was a maf car.inmo they keep a tighter afr on the street.the car was so consistent the only thing I looked at was fuel pressure as long as that was where it needed to be the car ran great.

Do that with a 9 sec car with big injectors.... What works with a 11sec car doesn't carry over to a 9 sec car. My car doesn't cruise at no 14.5/14.7 A/F. It wouldn't stay alive with that A/F. Throw in some E85 and bigger injectors and tell me how well what you just said plays out....

 

[neat]

The other day a friend of mine went his first 9 second pass. 9.95 @ 134. Here's a quick video:

It's tuned with whatever you think is the best, so it's done the right way in your mind. No need to debate the various tuning methods here.

 

[Jerryl]

Let’s not kid each other.
Some will continue to use the stock ECM, others will make the change to aftermarket. The reasons for each owner varies widely, and repeatable/proven results can’t be denied. There will always be owners on either side of the fence. Obviously, there is never one answer or solution to any ECU selection challenge, as much of it depends on a combination of; Budget, set-up, goals, technical abilities, learning curve, safety margin acceptance, etc.

Anyone remember similar debates 15 years ago about using alky vs. race gas?

 

[Street Lethal]

Hey I'm one for pushing the stock ECM to its' limits, don't think I am knocking it. I just think that it is funny that the majority who run chip based systems will downplay the need for features that the XFI offers, but then say when Bailey and Marshall suddenly release independent cylinder correction using the factory ECM, then suddenly it will be the greatest thing lol...

Anyone remember similar debates 15 years ago about using alky vs. race gas?

I remember them well, not to mention the SD vs MAF debates that still go on. People are definitely just as competitive on the forums as they are on the track, some are even worse on the forums lol. But in the end, the ole adage is correct; run what ya brung and hope ya brung enough...

 

[87GN_Bart]

Take a look at the TSM and TSO list of cars, tell me how many of these cars are running the stock ECM. I assume those guys just like to waste money on after market ECM which does nothing for them over the stock unit.

In 30 plus years computing has changed immensely however some people will tell you the old units can keep up with them that is just crazy.