Anyone running Bison's Alky plenium plate?

Discussion in 'Alcohol, Nitrous and Propane Tech' started by Chris McDade, Aug 7, 2017.

  1. Pronto

    Pronto
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    I read the books and followed the instructions.

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    Well that won't stop them from trying. Then like Bison said the ones that thought they beat the system will be vastly disappointed.
     
  2. seedling

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    Yeah I've seen a video of this kit spraying and it doesn't look anything like what we've seen elsewhere. And if Bison says it has close to 40% more flow then you have to know its working. And I'm sure the dispersement is incredible as well.

    I guess I just look at it as here's a killer new idea that has great potential. And it's available now (with no guess work). So, why screw with it, just get the kit (which comes with everything you need to install) and go.

    The thing is even if someone bought one a mapped out where each hole is drilled. They'd still need to know the size / angle of the holes drilled and lots more. So, copy catting this thing just seems like an awful lot of work for a part in this price category. And honestly, my time is worth more to me than the what $20-$30-$40- maybe $50 bucks tops that you might could save doing one yourself?

    Although obviously there are folks who view things differently than I do. And I respect that, to each his own. However, I also have the satisfaction of knowing that my kit is 100% legit and that everything is done as it should be too. And that peace of mind is worth far more to me than $50 any day. But that's what makes the world go round I guess?? Lol!!!





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    #42 seedling, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:10 AM
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017 at 9:29 AM
  3. Jerryl

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    Doing MORE with LESS!

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    Bison is more than likely selling these because of his demonstrated passion to provide solutions for increased operating condition safety margin, while at minimum, maintaining performance. I am not aware of many stock 109’s who have repeatedly put down 700 WHP.

    I am aware however that Dick Joe and Harry have all gone 9's on a build 109 with a stock ECM and home made alky kit, but . . . none of these members choose to share or hint how they did it.

    Now, before someone takes what is stated the wrong way . . . .I want to be VERY clear; I am in NO WAY saying or suggesting guys should share their secrets. Absolutely not! What I am saying is that most of us have learned more from Bison's post, than others. That in itself has to be worth something.

    Data and true knowledge are typically never free.
     
    #43 Jerryl, Aug 11, 2017 at 9:47 AM
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2017 at 11:06 AM
  4. robertf

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    I wonder if he makes any for Champion spacers? Or maybe just send mine to him.
     
  5. Pronto

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    I read the books and followed the instructions.

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    Probably easier to just buy one of his and sell yours.
     
  6. Nigel

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    I will be running one soon, nice solution to something that I have been wanting for a while.
     
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  7. Mr.Spool

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    Some of us don't like to advertise or brag about our fast 109s but I run twin nozzles spraying with a more aggressive curve with a power plate and have no issues.i am very curious and open minded about a direct port setup.my friends with bbc and sbc nitrous setups get to a point where they are spraying so much they feel the need the direct port.however i have had no issues pumping a ton of meth and nitrous in as long as the motor can use it and the tune is right, I run rich afrs and don't lean the cars way down.
     
  8. Nigel

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    Ordered yesterday, kit showed up today - Thanks Bison - Great customer service. Looking forward to getting it installed. Me personally, I like the concept of a dry flow system. I am guessing, from the nozzles all the way to the intake valves, you have a film on meth on every surface. How thick, how does it flow, how does it impact AFR, blah, blah, blah .... I like the thought of taking that out of the equation. I understand you will still have areas that are wet in the manifold, but significantly reduced. I also understand the nozzle in the up-pipe has been very successful. I am more of a tinkerer than an all out ET guy, so I enjoy trying to optimize. The other thing that has been stated, and to Bison's credit, he has shared a ton of knowledge. I have been around turbo buicks off and on for many years, nobody has shared as much knowledge(for those willing to learn) as Bison. That is not a criticism of anybody else, just my view.
     
  9. V6POWER

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    With this alky injection plate installed, will the plenum/up pipe clear the hood liner?
     
  10. robertf

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    It should easily.
     
  11. turbo89

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    To your point , on a 1500 hp Turbo LS running on alky & pump ... going from a twin nozzle to a direct port got nothing ... except added complexity of piping.

    We gained more by knowing where to plumb the twin nozzle than switching to direct port .. nothing new here
     
  12. seedling

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    Mine doesn't even rub. So yes sir, fits with no issues whatsoever.


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  13. Jerryl

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    Only thing I know is this: Bison is the only one who pushed the limits of a stock 109 with and without ported injection with supporting data. He was gracious to share the data for free, and provided a bolt on solution.

    So if there is data and solution to proof ported injection in a dry flow intake is bs, myself and the pro racers are all ears.
     
    #53 Jerryl, Aug 12, 2017 at 5:41 PM
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2017 at 6:05 PM
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  14. seedling

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    With all due respect, if you have data suggesting this doesn't work. Then, perhaps you wouldn't mind sharing it here, as Bison has done? Again with all due respect, is it possible that your application (in and of itself) may have been somewhat ineffective?

    The reason that I ask is this system has real world proven results. As noted earlier in this thread. And Port Injection is used in racing engines, as it is known to offer an increase in mass flow (due to cooling down of intake air). And it's hard to fathom any nozzle being nearly as efficient, as this. Since they spray 360 degrees which leaves a portion of the mixture on the floor, where flow is at its lowest velocity.

    In addition, it shows advantageous in the mixture preparation process. And for all intents and purposes, direct port injection appears to have advantages in knocking behavior, mass flow and in turbo / supercharged engine concepts. All of which would increase maximum power output and torque. And I'm sure you'll agree that it's kind of hard to do that with a percentage of your charge on the floor, right?




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  15. turbo89

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    Re-READ my post .. what I said was .. that PORT injection got us NOTHING over a dual nozzle when we found the best suited spot for the Dual Nozzle ... All it did was add complexity.

    This was tried in Several applications starting back in 1992 .. all the way to 2015
    Maybe the optimum mounting for a dual alky setup isn't the out of the box config :)

    Turbo 5.0 , Turbo LS, Turbo 500 cid 2800 hp applications ... what was found is that the placement of the nozzles had the MOST impact . and that porting the meth had no gain.

    The intakes on the 5.0 and the 500CID motor are very very similar to the buick plenum design .

    Do your own homework and you can draw your own conclusions ... I can't tell you how many cars I've seen switch from a 4 barrel carb to port fuel injection .. guess what .. they gained ZERO for power !
     
  16. Mr.Spool

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    So let's say I have a car that makes in excess 700rwhp running an m10 and m15 at say 180 psi.with your plate setup have you figured out the right sized holes to get the same volume or more?or would I have to play with pump pressures?guess I should ask it this way is the overall volume the same or more with the same pump pressure?
     
  17. bison

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    You will likely have to find a pump that can move enough volume at the pressures you want. Larger holes can be done but that doesn't guarantee more flow if the pump and or lines are a limiting factor. With 200psi you will exceed the flow of a single m15 with the original hole sizes. If you want to flow more fuel then larger holes can be used but you will be responsible to get the pressure up. Or increase the alcohol content of the fuel in the tank


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  18. Mr.Spool

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    Understood.thanks
     
  19. seedling

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    Sorry, if I am missing something here? However, for the record, adding this plate wasn't a complex process at all. At least not to me anyways. And since it is a single line system (verses a dual nozzle) then it seems as though it would be "far simpler", if anything? But, perhaps I am misunderstanding what you are attempting to say here:

    "All it did was add complexity."

    I too have seen quite a few vehicles converted from carb to port fuel injection as well. And while, they may, or may not show a horsepower gain, at the onset. However, I'm quite sure that everyone would agree that they are far more "tunable" which would allow for a great deal more power in the future. That is, once the vehicle is properly tuned, of course.

    With port injection having been around since the mid 80's and with all of the manufacturers now lining up for direct injection (some cars will use both even). Then any carb discussion should be dead and buried long ago by now. In that, I'm fairly confident that all the Manufacturers have done their homework and that there must be a good reason for it as well.





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  20. Royal-T-Ltd

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    I don't think he is referring to Bisons plate - he is referring to the link and the posts regarding individual meth injection into each intake port/runner.


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