Anyone Tried 1/2" Head Bolts??

[BlownV6]

This is what I call a non-projected, regular gap plug. This is what you should be running. That hot ground electrode will get you in trouble for sure.

Notice how fat the ground strap is for better heat transfer. This plug is the closest thing you will find to a retracted or surface gap plug without the drawbacks.

Im not aware of such a plug for taper seat application. Gasket seat has a much better selection of plugs that would suit my needs. Also I need to be capable of setting the gag at .015 or less. I accedently put a set of plugs in That I had set at .025 last year and it kept missing , finally got to the plugs and found the wider gap. It was the putting the flame out!!!

Any info or part numbers of a better plug from anyone would be appreciated!! Mike

 

[BlownV6]

Mike - give up. Don't try it. It'll never work.

Thanks!! Thats what gets me outta the bed everyday!! Mike

 

[joe_schindler]

As an attempt towards simplicity; I’ve taken some of your post out of context. My apologies.

Example - If you were to purchase a new Dart or World products sbc ,bbc , ford sb or bb block today you would have an option of going to larger head bolts. Why do you think that is??

‘cause they got room to put them in there?

Its because depending on the intended use, …

Engine------------Intended Use
BBC---------------Power
SB 2.2------------Race
Buick 3.8---------Buick Special economy, Jeep Jeepster

…so a step in the right direction is to increase the size and strength of the head bolt fasteners and thats what Im doing!!

This seems a case of; “When all you have is a hammer; everything is a nail.” I’m not sure that just because this is a fix you can make; puts it in the right direction.

That being said, I find it very odd that so many of you think that this wont solve anything!! You may be right!! But - It is underway!! So we will see. Mike

I truly wish you the best of luck with this attempt; but as you’re way past the design limit for even a Stage II engine; there’s probably an expensive weak link waiting for you after the head studs hold fast.

Keep us posted. I don’t run near that boost level; but I’d like to see how it holds up.

 

[Alky V6]

Im not aware of such a plug for taper seat application. Gasket seat has a much better selection of plugs that would suit my needs. Also I need to be capable of setting the gag at .015 or less. I accedently put a set of plugs in That I had set at .025 last year and it kept missing , finally got to the plugs and found the wider gap. It was the putting the flame out!!!

Any info or part numbers of a better plug from anyone would be appreciated!! Mike

Can the head be modded to take a gasket type plug?!?
With your machining skills, I would think that would be a piece of cake.

I can't stress it enough. Somehow you need to get rid of your present ground strap arrangement. After I switched to the present plug I'm using, spark plug problems disappeared. I'm still on the same set of plugs since I made the switch about a year ago. I've also gotten away with running a little leaner on the top end since switching to the present plug design. I used to target 10.5-10.8:1 on the top end. Now the target is 10.7-11.3:1, and the ground strap isn't showing a bit of heat on it!!! Goes to show you that a hot ground electrode can be the cause of most of your problems. Especially with your tuneup being far more critical than mine.

TOSS that plug!!!

 

[Alky V6]

I edited my previous post. Please read it again!

I've been able to get the gap on this plug down to .018". It would most likely be possible to get it tighter, but I stopped there since that's where I run it with my combination.

 

[Alky V6]

In case some are wondering what's with the gasoline numbers, that's what my a/f ratio meter reads out. It's calibrated to translate lambda to a gasoline number. I've gotten used to relating to those numbers with my tuneup, so that's what I use.

If you convert the numbers to lambda, and then to a methanol readout number, it would be the following:

10.5-10.8:1 is actually 4.63-4.76:1 air to methanol ratio.
10.7-11.3:1 is actually 4.71-4.98:1 air to methanol ratio.

Methanol tuners know that around 5.0:1 is a very good power number to shoot for, if you're powerplant configuration and power to engine size ratio will allow it. Combustion temperatures are getting up there at this level, and the shorter the ground strap, the better.

 

[BlownV6]

My racepac system will only read down to 4.03 and thats where I have been trying to target. Barry Kemper was actually below 4.0 AF when making the most power. Fuel makes the power , more fuel burned = more power. The more fuel injected ,the more timing it takes to adequately burn it. Something for you to consider. Mike

 

[Alky V6]

My racepac system will only read down to 4.03 and thats where I have been trying to target. Barry Kemper was actually below 4.0 AF when making the most power. Fuel makes the power , more fuel burned = more power. The more fuel injected ,the more timing it takes to adequately burn it. Something for you to consider. Mike

I've been richer than 4.5:1 and for whatever reason, my combination doesn't like it. Too rich, the engine gets sluggish. I am running a liquid intercooler.

The engine will only burn the fuel if there is enough oxygen to burn it with. Richness with methanol is used to cool combustion temps, avoid detonation, increase intake density. If the richness is helping out with charge density and allowing more timing to be used due to cooler combustion temps, then of course, you will have more power. You would most likely make the same power, or more, if you were able to trade some of that extra fuel for an intercooler.
In cases where a lot of methanol is being used to cool combustion temps, don't make the mistake of thinking that it's all being burned in the cylinder. It's not. Take my antilag system as a perfect example. I'm running the nitrous/methanol ratio at 1.67:1. That is outrageously rich. In fact, it's at the edge of rich missing. The fuel map on top of that is set between 5 to 10 percent rich.
The a/f ratio readout during the als activation is 14.64:1. Why do you think that is?
It's because the combination is so cold that the majority of the hit is burning in the exhaust system! Much of the nitrous and methanol hasn't even dissociated in time for the combustion event. What gets pushed into the exhaust system continues to dissociate and then ignites in the exhaust system.
Then one must ask, if fuel needs oxygen to burn, then how is the extra fuel lighting off in the exhaust system without an oxygen supply. Simple. As methanol and nitrous oxide dissociate the chemicals break down and supply their own oxygen to the process. Nitrous oxide is chemically 30 percent oxygen, and methanol is chemically 50% oxygen. It just so happens that I've stumbled on the perfect a/n/f ratio to provide a perfect burn by the time it gets past the turbo. The point is, when you run more fuel, you will need more air to burn it. Otherwise the fuel is just along for the ride as a simple tuning tool that may dissociate in the exhaust system, but it won't burn without an extra oxygen supply. Your own a/f ratio meter is proof of that. If you were truly burning all the fuel in your cylinder, shouldn't you be getting a perfect burn reading? 6.45:1?

 

[Alky V6]

With a blower setup such as yours and no intercooler, I'm surprised you're running that lean. I'd expect something in the 3?? to ones. With the efficiency of a blower setup, you need a lot of fuel to get intake temps/combustion temps down to a safe level. You should be shooting for an intake port temp of around 180-200 degrees F. Higher than that is asking for trouble.
What is your static CR?

Have you started dividing up the fuel feed? Some before and some after the blower?

 

[BlownV6]

I see your point as the the cars Im thinking/talking about dont have coolant systems or intercoolers. Makes perfect sense!! I agree that I need to be in the 3's on AF. But my race pac wont read below 4.03 , so up to this point (last 2 years) I worked to be able to see what was happening down the track , and that meant staying above 4.03. Looking back that wasnt the thing to be doing and attempting at the BPG race to leg it on out towards the 1/4 mile. I believe my static comp was 7.21. It will be slightly higher this go around with repairing the heads. Thanks Mike

 

[Alky V6]

I see your point as the the cars Im thinking/talking about dont have coolant systems or intercoolers. Makes perfect sense!! I agree that I need to be in the 3's on AF. But my race pac wont read below 4.03 , so up to this point (last 2 years) I worked to be able to see what was happening down the track , and that meant staying above 4.03. Looking back that wasnt the thing to be doing and attempting at the BPG race to leg it on out towards the 1/4 mile. I believe my static comp was 7.21. It will be slightly higher this go around with repairing the heads. Thanks Mike

That CR actually looks pretty good for the amount of boost your running. Unless you can get your intake temps down, I don't think raising the CR would be first on my list.
I know of an alcohol/nitrous/turbocharged engine that runs 6:1 CR with 80 psi boost. Billet block and heads btw. Pancake 4 cylinder that used to hold the local track record.

 

[BlownV6]

OK back on topic!! I made a few extra pieces to make my job easier today and spent to much time on other things , but I managed get one side of the block drilled for the 1/2" studs before I quit at 7:30. Tomorrow I think I will invent another piece to aid in chamfering the block with this plate. Hopefully I will get the other side drilled , both sides chamfered ,tapped and install the head gaskets ,studs ,heads ,insert washers and get them torqued down to see what Ive got!! Couple pics attached. Mike

 

[eastwoodad]

Pretty much off topic...but is this the same Mike that bought MegaBug? If so, great work on BOTH of these projects...the Bug and Rail.

 

[BlownV6]

Pretty much off topic...but is this the same Mike that bought MegaBug? If so, great work on BOTH of these projects...the Bug and Rail.

That would be me. MegaBug is what Ive been working on night and day since November. It will have to wait til I get this Buick back on track!!
Thanks Im proud of both!! Mike

 

[BlownV6]

As an attempt towards simplicity; I’ve taken some of your post out of context. My apologies.

‘cause they got room to put them in there?

Engine------------Intended Use
BBC---------------Power
SB 2.2------------Race
Buick 3.8---------Buick Special economy, Jeep Jeepster

This seems a case of; “When all you have is a hammer; everything is a nail.” I’m not sure that just because this is a fix you can make; puts it in the right direction.


I truly wish you the best of luck with this attempt; but as you’re way past the design limit for even a Stage II engine; there’s probably an expensive weak link waiting for you after the head studs hold fast.

Keep us posted. I don’t run near that boost level; but I’d like to see how it holds up.

Joe, Ok I gave it a day of calming to respond to your comments. I will try to be civil here.

1 - First comment about why Dart and World products offer larger head bolt options (cause they got room to put them in there?

WRONG!! they offer it because in extreme applications they are required!! Please see attached pics of my Stage 2 block with 1/2" holes and studs and tell me how the Hel? you figure there is not room??

2 - Your example of intended uses of various engines is very interesting.
Engine------------Intended Use
BBC---------------Power
SB 2.2------------Race
Buick 3.8---------Buick Special economy, Jeep Jeepster

BBC were produced in the 60's for passenger cars, modified versions now can produce over 3000 Hp.
SB2.2 is basically a 1950's SBC with modern technolgy cylinder heads, modified versions now can produce over 2000 Hp.
Buick 3.8 produced in the 60's for economy cars, modified versions now can produce over 1500 Hp and probably still hold the track record at the Indianapolis 500.
Please dont forget the Chrysler HEMI produced in the 50's for passenger cars, modified versions now power the quickest and fastest cars on the planet and can produce over 8000 Hp
So I hope you dont mind if I push past the design limits of a stage 2 block!!

3. third comment (This seems a case of; “When all you have is a hammer; everything is a nail.” I’m not sure that just because this is a fix you can make; puts it in the right direction.

In your finest moment PLEASE EXPLAIN what 1/2" studs can possibly hurt!! Secondly there is no hammer and nail concept going on here. You tell me one person in this Buick community that is (has been)pushing the limits that hasnt experienced head gasket issues?? Stock block or stage 2.

4. fourth comment (I truly wish you the best of luck with this attempt; but as you’re way past the design limit for even a Stage II engine; there’s probably an expensive weak link waiting for you after the head studs hold fast.

Thats how pushing the limits works!!

5. fifth comment (Keep us posted. I don’t run near that boost level; but I’d like to see how it holds up.

I dont think anyone else is pushing this boost level!! But Instead of bailing out to a SBC , BBC ,or Hemi Im attempting to set the bar higher , and inform all of you of exactly what Im doing and what is possible.

If I seem brash!! Its cause Im pissed!! Mike

 

[Alky V6]

Those bolts look very sexy. I like it.

May I suggest counterboring the top of the threaded holes in the deck of the block. 1/8" deep?
I don't know if counterboring is the proper term. Clearing the thread at the deck so that the thread doesn't start right at the deck, but starts 1/8" down in the hole. Less stress right at the deck.
I see the chamfer, but deeper than a typical chamfer.

 

[Blazer406]

Very nice.

What are your thoughts on thread depth and thread engagement now that they have been drilled and tapped?

Great job Mike!

 

[BlownV6]

Very nice.

What are your thoughts on thread depth and thread engagement now that they have been drilled and tapped?

Great job Mike!

The plate and all the tooling I made to drill , drill concrete out of the way, chamfer ,and then tap, worked better than expected. Threads look pretty fair , and more than adequate to get the job done. I ran out of time today ,but tomorrow I plan to get the heads on and torqued down to 100 ft lbs. If all goes well with that and the torque wrench acts like it should then I will be extremely pleased. Last couple of years I have been torqueing the 7/16 studs to 80 ft lbs and it was SPOOKY!!! Hope these give a better feel ,although Im worried about any crushing I might get from the heads. Hopefully there will be no problems from the studs pulling on the block threads. Probably wont sleep to good tonight worring about it. Mike

 

[joe_schindler]

Joe, Ok I gave it a day of calming to respond to your comments. I will try to be civil here.

Thanks.

1 - First comment about why Dart and World products offer larger head bolt options (cause they got room to put them in there? Quote) WRONG!! they offer it because in extreme applications they are required!! Please see attached pics of my Stage 2 block with 1/2" holes and studs and tell me how the Hel? you figure there is not room??

1 Well; the application may require larger hardware; but Dart and World products actually have the room for this larger hardware. The BBC and 2.2 blocks were designed to accommodate larger than "stock" hardware.

Ok; so it fits. I don't think I ever said 1/2 inch bolts wouldn't fit. My long ago comment was that the blocks don't have adequate material for the 7/16 inch bolts; and that removing material from the block to install the 1/2 inch bolts would only aggravate this situation. You will also slightly reduce the thread contact of the 1/2 inch bolt in the old 7/16 hole because the 7/16 hole is slightly larger than the ID of the 1/2 inch thread; not to mention that the 7/16 is 14 TPI and the 1/2 is 13 TPI. I don't know what reduction in strength this offset will cause; but it can't help.

2 - Your example of intended uses of various engines is very interesting.
Engine------------Intended Use
BBC---------------Power
SB 2.2------------Race
Buick 3.8---------Buick Special economy, Jeep Jeepster ‘quote’

[BBC were produced in the 60's for passenger cars, modified versions now can produce over 3000 Hp.
SB2.2 is basically a 1950's SBC with modern technolgy cylinder heads, modified versions now can produce over 2000 Hp.
Buick 3.8 produced in the 60's for economy cars, modified versions now can produce over 1500 Hp and probably still hold the track record at the Indianapolis 500.
Please dont forget the Chrysler HEMI produced in the 50's for passenger cars, modified versions now power the quickest and fastest cars on the planet and can produce over 8000 Hp
So I hope you dont mind if I push past the design limits of a stage 2 block!!

2 I haven’t forgotten the HEMI's. I don't know that the 50's (Donovan introduction in 1971 I think; could have been 72) HEMI's are making 8000 HP yet; but the 60's (Keith Black late 70's) HEMI's are doing quite well. While both of these are based on the original Chrysler design; neither is a Chrysler product.

1&2 Backing up a bit; the BBC and the SBC were both designed with additional potential in mind. The longevity of both speaks to this. The Buick V6 was designed as a light-weight economy engine. That it excelled and survived is nothing short of spectacular. That doesn't overcome the shortfalls of the engine.

Yes; a Stage II block has more potential than the passenger version; but the fastener locations still limit clamping potential. You are more than welcome to push the limits of your block; but that wasn't your original question; "Anyone Tried 1/2" Head Bolts??"

3. third comment (This seems a case of; “When all you have is a hammer; everything is a nail.” I’m not sure that just because this is a fix you can make; puts it in the right direction.’quote’
In your finest moment PLEASE EXPLAIN what 1/2" studs can possibly hurt!! Secondly there is no hammer and nail concept going on here. You tell me one person in this Buick community that is (has been)pushing the limits that hasnt experienced head gasket issues?? Stock block or stage 2.

3 I guess this is what I get for quoting you out of context.

... A stout set of billet 6061 alum heads would certainly help this situation but I cannot afford that at this time , so a step in the right direction is to increase the size and strength of the head bolt fasteners and thats what Im doing!!
...

As you have eliminated the use of billet heads; your only solution is to use bigger studs. I don't see how this makes bigger studs as a step in the right direction.

I am somewhat saddened that this will account for my finest moment; but you have reduced the mass of the deck, and increased the load on the deck by using 1/2 inch hardware. These same decks seem to have trouble holding together with 7/16 hardware. Reducing mass and increasing load is not usually a successful solution to a clamping problem.

Hammer = you're not going to buy billet heads.
Nail = you're going to put in bigger hardware.

You've got me on the head gasket deal. I've lost them; along with valves, pistons, rods, cranks, blocks, heads, transmissions, drive gears, and lots of other pieces along the way. Looking back; the head gaskets were probably some of the best fuse material I've come across. Just like a fuse in an electrical system; it's a lot easier to replace a head gasket than a piston or a block.

4. fourth comment (I truly wish you the best of luck with this attempt; but as you’re way past the design limit for even a Stage II engine; there’s probably an expensive weak link waiting for you after the head studs hold fast.
I dont think anyone else is pushing this boost level!! But Instead of bailing out to a SBC , BBC ,or Hemi Im attempting to set the bar higher , and inform all of you of exactly what Im doing and what is possible.

4 My comment was true and sincere. I wish you no ill will on this project; and I hope it works out. Limits - fuse. Something will blow. I'm going to have to live with head gaskets a while longer. I don't like changing rods and pistons.

5. fifth comment (Keep us posted. I don’t run near that boost level; but I’d like to see how it holds up.

5 Just because I don't push my car to 60 PSI doesn't mean that I'm not interested to see what can be achieved. I appreciate that you have pushed the limit; and report your results. I've found other things to push on. Luckily; they have fuses also. Unfortunately; they cost a little more than head gaskets.

If I seem brash!! Its cause Im pissed!! Mike

Brash?

 

[turbogray]

thanks Mike for pushing the envelope