Building spare engine. Formally " Engine Making Loud Tapping Noise"

[Tim Cucci]

I have a spare block that has a fresh .020 bore , line bored, cleaned and mag checked. Problem is it has a chunk knocked out about the size of a quarter right at the very bottom of one cylinder. 109 Turbo block.
The work on the block was done a few years ago. The machinist did not seem to think it would be an issue. What do you guys think. This thing has been sitting here for a while.

 

[Boost231]

Pics needed

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

 

[Tim Cucci]

O

5 3/16" from top of deck down to the top of knockout.

 

[BEATAV8]

I think it would be OK. I just wouldn't spend any big $$ on the parts going into it. Cheaper / budget minded forged pistons and the rest stock stuff with maybe a mild roller cam. I have an old 109 engine with a sleeve in #3. The sleeve has an edge on it near the bottom of the bore, about 180 degrees worth. It's been perfectly fine. Doesn't even leave any evidence on the piston skirt. That old dog has run 10.60's like that.

 

[Gene Van Horn]

Blocks are reasonably cheap,i wouldnt trust that at all. Plus it really looks like some the other cylinders arent looking so good either around the bottom.

 

[Tim Cucci]

Oh this is would definitely be a budget minded swap. While I get my original engine that is in the car now rebuilt. I have the spare parts. Just happen to have this spare block from a few years ago.

 

[thadeal4real]

As long as the rings don't get into it I don't see a problem I have run way worse on other engines but that's another story lol

 

[Wahoo]

Are you going to build it yourself?

 

[Tim Cucci]

Yes, I'll do it myself. I've done a couple of vin 7 's before. One of them is making bottom end noise now. I'd rather do it myself.

 

[Tim Cucci]

Pulled my engine out a few days ago. Disassembled and inspected as I took it apart. Found lots of wet oil surfaces in the combustion chambers, intake and exhaust runners, plugs, and on top of pistons. No broke rings or upside down rings. Pistons all look very good on the skirts and ring areas. Standard bore block is dead on 3.8". Real shiny bores ? Main bearings and rod bearings were wiped and pitted. Also the side clearance on the rods were as much as .026". I checked side play with dial indicator before taking anything loose on the bottom end. Crank play was good at .007" and the roller cam was good. When this block was lined bored it had stock main bolts during the line bore. Main studs were installed during assembly! I think this also caused a problem with the crank. I have checked the run out on the crank journals checking for bend and none are more than .0005 that I can find with my equipment. My iron heads have been PP with SS valves and beehive springs. Exhaust valve guide have not been lowered and no seals either. This may be where all the oil came from?? No oil in the IC, TB, or Up Pipe.

 

[SS/GN]

Just curious to why so much side clearance?? What was the cause of the noise?

 

[turbokinetic]

Interesting that there wasn't a "smoking gun" cause of the noise.

When you say that the bearings were wiped and pitted, could there have been enough clearance in the rod bearings to cause a knock?

 

[Tim Cucci]

The crank was a used crank from a 4.1 that was turned .020 on M and .010 on the R. The rods were my reconditioned originals that are still in great shape all over. The Big End Width also checks good at .845. The crank on the other hand is where the extra side clearance is at. Some of the inside widths on the rod journals were as much as .875. I do think at least the # 1 rod was knocking a little at the very first start up and I convinced myself that it must have been a lifter or two. I definitely contribute a lot of noise to the rod side play. Can't figure the smoking gun on the bad bearings yet other than some kind of oil starvation maybe? Why? Everything was balanced before assembly. The rods are offset on the stock piston pins .050". The side play was my mistake at assembly. This may also have contributed to some oil starvation???

 

[TURBOELKY]

If I was going to use that block, I personally would magnaflux it first. Then I would smooth out any sharp edges in that missing chunk to make sure it doesn't crack up the cylinder.

 

[t-typinator]

If I was going to use that block, I personally would magnaflux it first. Then I would smooth out any sharp edges in that missing chunk to make sure it doesn't crack up the cylinder.

I agree
I was going to suggest the same thing ,that looks like a good stress riser area for a crack to start.
And that mark up at the top of that same cylinder that looks like it could be a crack is almost like a foreshadowing of things to come.
a bit of grinding/ smoothing those edges could go a long way to helping prevent a crack.
Maybe i'm just paranoid when it comes to things like that ,and it could be fine and never be a problem, but now is the time to do a little work that could possibly save alot of future work and cost.
Good luck

 

[Tim Cucci]

I got a good standard crank and nice set of stock rods with JE .020 pistons. Ready to go out for balance . I started to order the JE matching rings but there are other choices also. Should I use the JE J100F63820-5 rings? Or Total Seal, or Speed Pro, Hastings? You guys got suggestions?

 

[TURBOELKY]

Everything out of the machine shop I fiddle around in leaves with total seal rings, unless the customer brings in something else.