Cams-Billet vs Ductile

[psycho6cyl]

Didnt find much but was really curious whats the difference? Is Iit just a strength issue? At this point in my mini build the 200$ difference isnt going to kill.me,I just want to get the right parts..

 

[Phoneguy]

Contact Bison, he can get you what you need...be it billet or ductile, customs too

Bryan

 

[kidglok]

At this point in my mini build the 200$ difference isnt going to kill.me,I just want to get the right parts..

It's more than a $200 difference when you figure the timing set and nose hardware.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

 

[psycho6cyl]

It's more than a $200 difference when you figure the timing set and nose hardware.


Posted from the TurboBuick.Com mobile app

Oh on webers site the ductile kit was 799 and billet was 999.that included chain thrust bearing.... if you go to tbis link youll see it on one page and billet on next. Did I miss something?

http://www.weberpowerproducts.com/turbo-buick-camshafts-s/1850.htm

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Didnt find much but was really curious whats the difference? Is Iit just a strength issue?

Id also like to know what is the difference

 

[turbobuick]

I don't have a lot of experience with the "new" cast roller cams but I know quite a few people are running them with success. I am partial to a billet grinds and have to many memories of the "old" cast roller cam fiasco.

If you are planning to run a solid lifter with higher spring rates and RPM I would highly recommend a billet over a cast piece. If running an on-center block I would definitely run a billet for the adjust-ability of the nose assembly if using a stock style front cover. If going billet I am not a fan of the Weber nose setup for several reasons. I would go with the Danny Bee retention plate with a cam spacer cut to size from DLS, along with a timing chain, gear and cam bolt from TA perf. or DLS who also have the Danny Bee retention plate. If ordering a billet cam you will need to specify what retention system you are using since the cam nose will be cut differently depending on the setup. You can do all this through DLS who can also spec a custom grind better matched to your combo.

If you are planning to run a stock block and mild hyd cam with reasonable spring pressures I would probably consider one of the new cast rollers and retain the factory nose assembly.

Which ever you select make sure you spend a little time with your cam and distributor gear alignment. Aftermarket front covers and timing chain gaskets will alter this alignment and can cause you grief.

 

[psycho6cyl]

Turbobuick thx for the info. Seems like ill.stick to KISS method then-keep it simple stupid. does dls have a website? Just like to absorb as much as I can..

 

[Nick Micale]

There is no better billet cam retention method than a "Danny Bee" type plate, as it has been used for years with Stage blocks.

It does NOT require any special machining for the cam sprocket, only 3 holes must be drilled and tapped into the front of the block.

As Chris stated, the cam must be machined to fit this set up, and both Comp Cams and TA Performance sells the cam ready to install.

TA also has this retention kit, cam gear and all hardware needed which can be seen on their web site.

We do all our billet cams with this method, and never had any issues.

When building a high performance stroker engine, it is usually necessary to use a billet cam as it can be ordered with a small base circle to eliminate interference with internal rotating parts.

 

[we4Mateo]

Good stuff. Thanks guys.

 

[Turbo-Archie]

I am partial to a billet grinds and have to many memories of the "old" cast roller cam fiasco.

How long ago and what was the problem??

I'm just getting ready to use a new one that I bought from full throttle in 2007??



..

 

[forcefed3.8's]

How long ago and what was the problem??

I'm just getting ready to use a new one that I bought from full throttle in 2007??



..

Early 2000's. They were long gone by 2007.

 

[750H.P.V6]

I had one of the early "budget roller" cams fail in my motor. That sucked.

Neal

 

[m233roller]

Don't feel alone Neal,
I got talked into the budget roller cam also by a VERY well known engine builder. SOB ate the whole damn new engine, turbo and ALL !!

 

[psycho6cyl]

What makes the old ones different than the new ones?

 

[Jay J]

metallurgy.

 

[turbobuick]

I believe it was the was the way Comp case hardened the cams. A cast steel cam is not hard enough to withstand a steel roller and spring pressures unless going through a hardening process. I believe these cams where wiping out in less than 1000 miles.

There was lots of interesting conversation on the board just prior to it mysteriously crashing and losing all data including all back ups.

Then again I am sure it was an improper installation and break in procedures right Neal, lol.

Hey if we are going to open up old wounds might as well go all the way right lol?

In all fairness I believe the new ones are fine and proven at this point. For some of us that were around for the original "budget" roller cams a cast roller cam isn't as appealing as it once was.

I built a girdled 109, steel crank, carrillo rod, solid billet cam motor back in 1999 and never bought a budget roller. I used a Weber style cam setup on the cam nose on that motor. The reasons I didnt care for it was that it was the torrington bearing restricts oil from the first cam bearing which feeds the cam and distributor gears. In addition I believe he was also machining material off the back of the cam timing chain gear so a replacement would not be as easy to come by. You used to have to weld a piece on the timing cover for the roller bearing on the cam nose and setting the end play was a real PIA. I am sure there have been upgrades and changes over the years but those were the issues I didnt care for with the Weber set up back then. Like Nick said above the Danny Bee setup is full proof simple and the best set up you can run IMO.

 

[bison]

How long ago and what was the problem??

I'm just getting ready to use a new one that I bought from full throttle in 2007??



..

About 15 years ago

 

[The Radius Kid]

You guys *might* want to have a look at this:

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40685&sid=fe6508db4522dcec7142af29ce6221c6

Looks like dejavu all over again.

 

[bison]

You guys *might* want to have a look at this:

http://speedtalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=40685&sid=fe6508db4522dcec7142af29ce6221c6

Looks like dejavu all over again.

Looks like the lifter was launching off the ramp from inadequate pressure from lack of knowledge of valvetrain requirements. I've been running comp XE lobes for many years and some even more aggressive lobes than XE lobes and I don't have billet cams wearing like that. Although LS engines require less spring than traditional 90 engines There is no mention of the spring pressure either but plenty of engineers over there. Roll eyes

 

[The Radius Kid]

Looks like the lifter was launching off the ramp from inadequate pressure from lack of knowledge of valvetrain requirements. I've been running comp XE lobes for many years and some even more aggressive lobes than XE lobes and I don't have billet cams wearing like that. Although LS engines require less spring than traditional 90 engines There is no mention of the spring pressure either but plenty of engineers over there. Roll eyes

I believe spring pressure is mentioned in there as well as the wear being on the leading side of the lobe , not the trailing side.
Maybe a bad cam , but who knows?