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Cams-Billet vs Ductile

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Get a billet cam. I was one of the many people that tried a "budget roller", to me running a steel wheel on an iron cam is similar to the Chevy type rear end running the roller bearings directly on the iron axle ( instead of having an inner race, then pressed on the axle)
 
I believe spring pressure is mentioned in there as well as the wear being on the leading side of the lobe , not the trailing side.
Maybe a bad cam , but who knows?
Bad cam not likely
 
I don't have a lot of experience with the "new" cast roller cams but I know quite a few people are running them with success. I am partial to a billet grinds and have to many memories of the "old" cast roller cam fiasco.

If you are planning to run a solid lifter with higher spring rates and RPM I would highly recommend a billet over a cast piece. If running an on-center block I would definitely run a billet for the adjust-ability of the nose assembly if using a stock style front cover. If going billet I am not a fan of the Weber nose setup for several reasons. I would go with the Danny Bee retention plate with a cam spacer cut to size from DLS, along with a timing chain, gear and cam bolt from TA perf. or DLS who also have the Danny Bee retention plate. If ordering a billet cam you will need to specify what retention system you are using since the cam nose will be cut differently depending on the setup. You can do all this through DLS who can also spec a custom grind better matched to your combo.

If you are planning to run a stock block and mild hyd cam with reasonable spring pressures I would probably consider one of the new cast rollers and retain the factory nose assembly.

Which ever you select make sure you spend a little time with your cam and distributor gear alignment. Aftermarket front covers and timing chain gaskets will alter this alignment and can cause you grief.

Being new to the TB scene is why I got all my advice and parts from Husek for my build. I went with the billet cam, high dollar lifters, Earl's timing cover, the Danny Bee and basically heard all the same advice from Dave I've read in this thread. These guy's know what works from being around so many years. Some of these parts are a lot more expensive than the alternatives but I learned a long time ago it doesn't cost anymore to get the best. I want my motor to live a long time and I certainly don't have the knowledge or experience to figure that out on my own and although the boards are a good place to get good advice I know for sure it takes a good recipe to go fast. I bad ingredient in the recipe and you're going out for dinner!
 
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Barracuda, I think your build is going to be great. The only thing I don't understand is why not go with the FAST XFI. You're going to have so much money invested in that build. It just seems like a logical step to help protect your expensive parts. Have Cal tune it for you and be done. I know the TT chips are really good, but the FAST gives such precise control. Anyway, it's still going to be awesome and I can't wait to hear about it when it's done.
 
Barracuda, I think your build is going to be great. The only thing I don't understand is why not go with the FAST XFI. You're going to have so much money invested in that build. It just seems like a logical step to help protect your expensive parts. Have Cal tune it for you and be done. I know the TT chips are really good, but the FAST gives such precise control. Anyway, it's still going to be awesome and I can't wait to hear about it when it's done.

This is interesting. I used to think that way too, but John Plog is changing my view. His car is crazy fast, like Grumpy, well into the 9's, on a stock ECM. While a FAST XFI may make it easier to get all the power out, I'm starting to think that with a conservative tune, a stock ecm is at least as safe and reliable as a FAST setup. You may sacrifice max effort, but the simplicity of the stock ECM is nice for some folks. Different strokes I guess. Even with the money in this build though, I still don't think a $2,000 engine management system is required for reliability or safety reasons unless maxx effort is required.
 
Well, you know, I'm just thinking he's not cutting corners on the build, why cut a corner on engine management? Maybe I better look up this John plog fella. And try to see another point of view.
 
I have looked at the Fast system over the last year since I got involved in TB's. I have a similar system on my Harley which will do about the same thing as the Fast and I'm familiar with the software or I should say it's capabilities. I have a 78 Trans Am that I built a Butler Performance 474 stroker last winter. I was all set to run the FAST 2.0 throttle body fuel injection on that car but then the GN let go so no money for that now. Hell I even have a Spectre gas tank with electric fuel pump new in the box for that project. Just gona have to wait.

I'm not ready for the Fast system on the GN yet. I'm still getting to know the car in general and what make them tick. This unfortunate event with my motor is probably the best thing for me since I have to put this thing back together! I had a 5.6 chip and a PL which I installed along with a WB after I bought the car. I actually had my old set up running pretty good before a bearing let go. Before that happened I was considering the SD2 for this year. I wanted to get the car down the track a few more times with the TT 5.6 just to see how much I could improve with tuning. Walk before I run if you will.

Since my goal is a safe high 10 I am probably over building this motor but like I told Dave Husek when I asked him to design the build for me is that I want to run the number without taking my combo to the edge. I asked Dave about the SD2 and his advice was simple is better. No negatives about the SD2, just simple is better for what I am doing. So for now the 5.7 is what's on the shelf and to be honest I really need a couple seasons of the basics in the tuning department. I told Dave whatever he said is what we will do from the start and that's the way it will end. I have an old saying that has served me well over the years with the hotrods. "The pros have already been to school so there's no need for me to go"

I think my build and the way I went about it could help a lot of people on the board. Pick someone like Dave that has been around a long time. There's a few guy's around this board that are very qualified as well. Go to them for help, buy ALL of your parts from them if you can. Don't beat'em up over price because you can find stuff cheaper, respect them on the boards, if they say this is the way to go don't start threads questioning their advice etc. Do everything they tell you to do and you will be successful. I pimp Dave because when I bought his converter it did everything he said it would and the guy called me on a Sunday to see how I was doing at the track. Then I blew my motor and he called at 7pm on a Saturday after reading the board to see if he could help. Dave has spent many hours with me on the phone over the last year helping me and for what? the money?? he ain't getting rich on my deal selling parts so that speaks volumes to me. Just don't get any better than that, Period! I'm sure other vendors on the board will do that too so for the dazed and confused like me, when your time comes find a good guy and go 1 direction!!!!

There will be a lot of guys going faster than me with less and I'm OK with that. Not because my set won't run'em down but I'm a panzee and I don't want to blow it up.:) I plan to work my way up to 25# of boost and make the car work there. My car has a lot of go fast goodies in the suspension and I have a set of 28x9" slicks waiting for some track time. I'll work on getting the 60's down and tune the car from there. If that goes well then we'll see about a little more boost.

I have no idea what this car will be capable of at 3940# with me in it at 25# of boost but we'll find out. I am very confident I'll hit my number though!;)
 
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It is amazing to me that something that happened over 15 years ago is still influencing people to spend needless money. The current austemper cams are so good that in some application billets are going away completely. they have the LOWEST failure rate and are now even being used for solid rollers. The current version (a few years old now) can take 500PSI spring over the nose. Every new car that has a roller uses an austemper care as well this is where the improvement in technology came from. We will do billets when someone specify s them but frankly for 99.9% of these cars it is a total waste of money. If you look at the sheer number of these cams that are running fine right now and just look for a post when anyone has had a failure in the last 5 years that should tell you something.
 
I so remember the "Econo-roller" cam. I got one, and then another fresh rebuild. That was a very costly cam. Glad those days are gone.
 
I remember this debate and bought a ductile 10 years ago after they worked the bugs out. No valvetrain issues to this day

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any special lifter requirements for billet cams?
No but typically if you're running a billet cam you are running some very aggressive springs. Otherwise most don't need them for off center blocks.
 
Thanks I have a buddy that picked up a short block with billet cam and short travel lifters he does not have adjustable valve train. Could he run the long travel lifters with the solid rocker shafts stock rockers and the correct push rod length?
 
Thanks I have a buddy that picked up a short block with billet cam and short travel lifters he does not have adjustable valve train. Could he run the long travel lifters with the solid rocker shafts stock rockers and the correct push rod length?
He could but unless you know what spring is on there id probably run the lifters that are in there. Order the correct length pushrods and be done with it. I'd want to know the seat and open pressure anyway so it's worth pulling a spring anyway.
 
He has not set the heads up yet. The springs have to be changed they were off a different motor set up for a flat tappet cam.
I was under the impression that short travel lifters required adjustable rockers like a solid lifter?
 
Cast cams have the stock oil hole for delivering oil to the cam sensor gear.

How does a billet cam provide oiling for the cam sensor gear?
 
He has not set the heads up yet. The springs have to be changed they were off a different motor set up for a flat tappet cam.
I was under the impression that short travel lifters required adjustable rockers like a solid lifter?
No. You just use a length checker to determine the length at zero preload then add the rec'd preload to the pushrod length and order the pushrods to that length. I don't rec stock rocker arms for anything more than a stock cam engine.
 
Just to clarify, I ran a best of 10.16 with the stock ecm, then switched to the xfi. I am running the non billet cam and quite happy with it.
 
Just to clarify, I ran a best of 10.16 with the stock ecm, then switched to the xfi. I am running the non billet cam and quite happy with it.

Ive got a hydraulic flat tappet cam in my motor with GM lifters and pushrods and its been goin strong 6+ years now with idk how many miles on it - it was in another motor before going into mine (if that tells you anything about its durability and longevity). Im poor I cant afford 1000+ dollar cams but if budget is nothing rollers look shiny n all....never driven one to know the difference or anything.... my .02 cents
 
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