Champion's ported intake

[czimpel]

What plenum brand is that Nick?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

No I believe Nick is referring to total volume of the manifold filled with compressed intake charge. If you look at his manifold there is a spacer to increase the manifold volume.

The spacer increases manifold volume? Looks like it's extending the doghouse volume lol. It's not?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

My ported champion stock intake ports match up to my un-race ported GN1 heads when I've peeked down in there with the plenum off. I sold my power plate when I went to this new setup. It's run 125 mph at 17-18 psi boost vs having to run 27 psi boost to run 125-126 mph in the 1/4 on bowl ported irons and bone stock intake. Converter locked on those runs. Same cam/turbo/intercooler/headers/exhaust on both combos. I'd never run iron heads, for a little more money new aluminum big valve GN1's are a no brainer. Matched with a ported champion stock intake, can't go wrong.

With JUST replacing your heads/intake, you dropped TEN PSI to maintain the same power level?

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

HP is all about air flow [and fuel] and when you modify a stock GN the main goal is to put more air into the engine. I fully agree plenum volume is much more important than matching flow numbers on the intake manifold as the turbo will "stuff" enough air into the combustion chamber as it is needed and available.

If the "reservoir" of air is adequate in the plenum at all boost levels, then enough air will be present for proper combustion.

Your TA-61 turbo is at the threshold of the plenum having enough air readily available for each cylinders at RPM, so I would be more concerned about that than equal intake runner numbers?

Theory and numbers are no match for real world experience and testing when trying to optimize HP on a given combination. It may be a good starting point, but best results are obtained on the dyno and track!

Here is an example of how we address this issue:

View attachment 239344

Then why does our factory setup have have the rear two cylinders running way too lean from the factory, if under boost it all equalizes anyways?

 

[bison]

Then why does our factory setup have have the rear two cylinders running way too lean from the factory, if under boost it all equalizes anyways?

It doesn't. All the testing I've seen indicated the front of the engine is what gets lean. Many stock engines have ran low 11's and even 10's without ever removing the factory heads and intake. If they were way too lean they would be melting. I see more problems when people start disturbing the factory setup. Running way too lean. Detonating the engine and hurting it. Airflow and air pressure are two different things and have to be looked at separately. You can have 500psi and zero flow. The plenum volume needs to increase with increased airflow. The way airflow is increased is by increasing the engines speed and or displacement not by increasing pressure.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

It doesn't. All the testing I've seen indicated the front of the engine is what gets lean. Many stock engines have ran low 11's and even 10's without ever removing the factory heads and intake. If they were way too lean they would be melting. I see more problems when people start disturbing the factory setup. Running way too lean. Detonating the engine and hurting it. Airflow and air pressure are two different things and have to be looked at separately. You can have 500psi and zero flow. The plenum volume needs to increase with increased airflow. The way airflow is increased is by increasing the engines speed and or displacement not by increasing pressure.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

Dam lol. I was just told from Champion it's the rear cylinders that lean out. And it made sense to me because they flow the most. So if more air gets to them, and the fuel quantity remains the same, wouldn't the rears lean out?
But besides that, you think that people ruin more shit by utilizing aftermarket stuff? Will I be safe down to the tens with my powerplated factory stock intake, steve monroe tb/doghouse, and champion irons? That won't blow anything up will it?

 

[TurboTnZ06]

With JUST replacing your heads/intake, you dropped TEN PSI to maintain the same power level?

And added like 20 cid and a 70mm throttle body from stock, I already had a precision 70mm doghouse...

 

[Pronto]

But besides that, you think that people ruin more shit by utilizing aftermarket stuff? Will I be safe down to the tens with my powerplated factory stock intake, steve monroe tb/doghouse, and champion irons? That won't blow anything up will it?

The key words are "disturbing the factory setup" and DETONATION. Going away from the factory settings to try to make more power is going need more precise tune to not detonate. Using aftermarket parts to make more power needs retuning as the stock setting don't work. The parts you have are plenty for tens. What will blow you up is a failure on the tune, fueling or a part.

 

[bison]

Dam lol. I was just told from Champion it's the rear cylinders that lean out. And it made sense to me because they flow the most. So if more air gets to them, and the fuel quantity remains the same, wouldn't the rears lean out?
But besides that, you think that people ruin more shit by utilizing aftermarket stuff? Will I be safe down to the tens with my powerplated factory stock intake, steve monroe tb/doghouse, and champion irons? That won't blow anything up will it?

Monitoring egt at all the cylinders is how I got my info. TSM has made nearly 1000hp with a stock intake. Their engines rev at least 1000rpm more than yours and probably more Displacement yet they make it down the quarter mile repeatedly. I don't think I know people ruin more shit by not knowing what they are doing with aftermarket stuff. I see it everyday. Most can't even get it right with the car 100% stock. Even with everything close to perfect things can still blow up. You can only learn so much on the Internet.


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Wow. A thousand HP on a stock intake. That's nuts. Then why do people use the Champion porteds?

 

[TurboTnZ06]

Even if more air goes to the back, you could have a single feed rail and by the time the fuel gets to #1, it's not enough fuel as what #2 4 and 6 get. Part of why #1 and 3 can go leaner.

 

[bison]

Wow. A thousand HP on a stock intake. That's nuts. Then why do people use the Champion porteds?

I'm sure it the TSM racers have port work on their intakes. We've seen 700whp with simple squaring of the stock intake port at its exit and the EGR tower milled out. We always used the largest plenum spacer we could fit


BPE2013@hotmail.com

 

[turbo89]

Wow. A thousand HP on a stock intake. That's nuts. Then why do people use the Champion porteds?

Simple cause they read it on the internet ... it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that they have a ported intake .. in reality it doesn't do a heck of a lot other than create a temporary euphoria that quickly turns into buyer remorse when they goto the track.

Its been said many times and proven OVER and OVER ... a simple port match is all you need the rest is just smoke and mirrors

 

[turbofabricator]

So Nick....did polishing your plenumn spacer really help that much?

Just kidding of course. I made my big plenum to try and have 2.75 times the displacement of the engine. Most of the data I have studied suggested that formula.(F1 stuff I read about 15 years ago).
Did you run into hood clearance issues with it that thick? Good plan in my mind.

 

[Turbo6Smackdown]

Simple cause they read it on the internet ... it gives them a warm fuzzy feeling knowing that they have a ported intake .. in reality it doesn't do a heck of a lot other than create a temporary euphoria that quickly turns into buyer remorse when they goto the track.

Its been said many times and proven OVER and OVER ... a simple port match is all you need the rest is just smoke and mirrors

Gotcha. I've heard this several times now. I see said the blind man...

 

[The Radius Kid]

If you could flow at near boost levels that would show real trends. Something like 1500 inches of water. About 25 years ago I did the math to calculate 20psi but I don't remember what I had for lunch, so 1500 is probably way off, but you get the idea. Then add to the issue that the intake valve is sending the air column all over hells half acre bouncing up and down disrupting air flow so much that who really knows what is going on in there? I do think our plenumn volume is way too small but five different engine builders will give you 20 different views on what it should be. Maybe.....kinda.....sorta. Clear as mud, right? Bumble bees can't fly, either.

THAT is quite a flow depression considering most benches are standardized to 28 inches.
I think that works out to around 50 atmospheres!
I do agree that an increase in plenum has pluses.

 

[V6sleeper]

So Nick....did polishing your plenumn spacer really help that much?

Just kidding of course. I made my big plenum to try and have 2.75 times the displacement of the engine. Most of the data I have studied suggested that formula.(F1 stuff I read about 15 years ago).
Did you run into hood clearance issues with it that thick? Good plan in my mind.

I have a 1" spacer, just a small vac block imprint in the hood liner and that's with a tall pte-plenum...

 

[Boost231]

Bump for good read