Dual fed fuel rail setup

[V6UnderPressure]

i ran into the same problem of melting the number 1 and sometimes 2 plugs after a pass. i changed to a very elaborate dual fed champion rail setup and external regulator...the result....nothing. In my experience, alcohol cars will face this problem right around the 10.0 mark. If i turn off the alky and run race gas....no prob. Im starting to believe that the alky tends to favor rear cylinders when subjected to the G-forces of a 10.0 ish car.

This coming from someone who doesn't believe the RJC power plate works.... Anyhow, my main objective here was to upgrade the entire fuel system to handle flow, regardless of going dual feed or not. I decided to go this route because this is actually how Aeromotive recommends a dual rail setup. Plus it allows easier servicing of everything. Anyways, you coming to the party Surej? Next Saturday, you in?

Oh, and get off the alky you alkyholic!

 

[V6UnderPressure]

For those that have had the #1 cylinder issue, have you used aftermarket management to adjust the amount of fuel dumped soley into the number 1 cylinder? I'd be curious??? Where does the problem exist? And what is causing it. Everyone keeps saying how dual feeds don't solve the problem, so what does???

 

[KevinB]

I have been running the stock fuel rail for a long time. Went as fast as 9.6 in the old car and 9.7's now. Never had any issue with #1 going lean. Never popped a head gasket or hurt a piston. But I have never used alky injection on my car.
we have had cars run great on the dyno but mess up on the track. I personally would never run alky injection for fueling in a car running 10.0's or faster on my own car or any other car I am responsible for. Its a fueling issue in the front cylinders.

 

[Nick Micale]

Me and a few other have been saying this for a couple of years but it falls on deaf ears here a tb.com.

About 10 years ago we modified the stock fuel rail to dual feed Dick Kereny's TSM car, before it even was a TSM build, and it is still working well as he ran a 9.1 @149 MPH yesterday with the same rail.

We cut off the stock regulator and supply ends, and welded 2 -8 fitting for the dual feed. A -6 return line bung is welded on the rail under the coil pack to an external regulator.

The most expensive part here was the Y fitting to split the supply lines.

This is a mod we have done to many other GN's as well.

 

[blackgn1]

Is Kerney running some kind of individual cylinder fuel management? Did I say that right?:biggrin: We have cars running low 10's and high 9's consistantly time and time again with alky injection. They see street duty so race fuel isn't really a option unless you want to invest the cash to cruise. The lean cylinder issue comes up quite often. The cure is race fuel. Well I just answered my own question. Dick is running race fuel. Duh!!! Why are some cars running such fast times without burning a piston? Luck or fuel setup?

 

[NCTURBOS]

Me and a few other have been saying this for a couple of years but it falls on deaf ears here a tb.com.

Something like this...


K.

 

[KevinB]

Wow!

 

[blackgn1]

No Power Plate?:biggrin:

 

[jasjamz]

Something like this...


K.

What's the point of that picture? No details? Could of been a dual nozzle setup and tuned wrong. Mine never looked that way. Power Plate here too. Looks like an unported intake too. Elaborate....

 

[49-blues]

I need to do this as well- great info!

 

[blackgn1]

Think that there are numerous reasons this could happen. I'm like jasjamz. Mine doesn't look like that at all. I too have the plate.

 

[KevinB]

Think that there are numerous reasons this could happen. I'm like jasjamz. Mine doesn't look like that at all. I too have the plate.

How fast is your car?

 

[bison]

Something like this...


K.

If an engine was making 600+whp the engine would never live long enough to look like that. It wouldnt last one pass.

 

[Ttype6]

No Power Plate?:biggrin:

The problem isn't that too much air is blowing on the rear of the intake,so much so that it cleans all the soot off. Fast moving air isn't going to do that anyway. This isn't an air distribution problem. The only thing in that area that would clean that soot off is alcohol. The alcohol is going to the rear of the intake. The front runners are leaner and more prone to detonation.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

The problem isn't that too much air is blowing on the rear of the intake,so much so that it cleans all the soot off. Fast moving air isn't going to do that anyway. This isn't an air distribution problem. The only thing in that area that would clean that soot off is alcohol. The alcohol is going to the rear of the intake. The front runners are leaner and more prone to detonation.

That is what I gather from the picture as well. So is this only an issue with alky, or was it an issue before alky for anyone? If this is happening without alky, this shouldn't be mysterious. There's not much to it. Either the #1 cylinder is seeing alot more air than the others, or the #1 injector isn't feeding enough fuel. Has anyone come to a consensus? I originally went with a setup like this for increasing flow, but now I got a thirst for more information...

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Something like this...


K.

Out of curiousity, was this with or without a power plate?

 

[jasjamz]

Looking at some of the data posted by Richard Clark and SloGN #1 gets more air than #2. If cylinders 5&6 get the most meth, and cylinders 3&4 get more than cylinders 1&2 on a TR with excessive meth being injected that leaves 1&2 in danger. Now with all this extra Meth, the 02 sensor and wideband readings to appear correct or safe this is still a combined collection of all the cylinders. Two are lean, two are OK, and two are rich. As you search for more power you lower the overall injector duty cycle of all injectors,(leaner A/F ratio) Cylinder #1 is the first one to start detonating causing damage. This is my opinion of what happens.

Intake testing... http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/engine-tech/363911-interesting-numbers-3.html

 

[Ttype6]

#1 gets more air than #2.

The problem isn't that any one cylinder is getting a significantly greater amount of air than any or all of the others. It's not an air distribution problem. The problem is that some get significantly more or less alcohol than others. It's a fuel distribution problem.

 

[jasjamz]

The problem isn't that any one cylinder is getting a significantly greater amount of air than any or all of the others. It's not an air distribution problem. The problem is that some get significantly more or less alcohol than others. It's a fuel distribution problem.

You must not completely understand what I posted. If you did, you wouldn't have quoted that.

Focus on 1&2. I you supply them with the same fuel and more air to #1, which will be lean?

 

[blackgn1]

Doesn't this all start at the upper plenum? Air is being forced into the throttle body and the upper plenum design is making the air run right in the rear cylinders. Also the reson the alky is heavy in the rear of the intake.