E85 Corrosion Issue, This Is Not Pretty

[GNVYUS 1]

Few updates

1) Siemens doesn't sell o-ring retainers just in case a few of yours crack like mine did. ooops. No leaks though so all good.

Base pressure went up a few lbs probably from the filter being totally clean, but......

Pressure still isn't close to 1:1. So I'm going to go into denial and will call Accufab and see if there's a chance the regulator can be the cause.

Then when this doesn't help it's onto the intank 044 with custom outlet fitting in stainless. My goal is to make that pump a plug and play with the Racetronix harness and without the sock and with a smaller custom 12mmx1.5 to 5/16th outlet fitting, this should just fit with a small bit of fuel pressure hosing.

BTW, the intake fuel pressure hose is 5/16th ID correct?

 

[Hot Air]

It pretty much has to be either the pump (not puting out enough pressure), the regulator (not increasing pressure as boost rises), or fuel pressure gauge (not linear or ??). Do you have an electronic fuel pump controller? Sure you are building boost?
Conrad

 

[gntyDenver]

My car has been running E-85 for 2 months I have a New Sump tank fuel lab pump 10 feed 8 return 95 injectors everything is NEW car runs GREAT went out last weekend to beat-up on sum imports and the Buick was bucking and kicking and POPPING at around 3R.P.M.... for sum reason i check my Pre and after fuel filter and to my surprise the pic of these dirty filters are my twins mine look the same with the same GUNK!!!! So this issue has nothing to do with left over E-85 over winter!!!! BUT CAN SUM1 PLZ HELP!!!!

 

[Hot Air]

Did you take pictures of the filters?
Conrad

 

[gntyDenver]

I can it would be no problem but look the same as above..

 

[The_Six]

What was your New Sump tank made out of? was it the stock tank with welded in sump or did you buy a prefab tank ?

 

[GNVYUS 1]

FWIW, I went to the Bosch 044 and the pressure is back to 1:1. I have the custom fitting for sale now for others who are interested.

There seems to be two forms of the E85 gunk, the dark black stuff and the white stuff. My thinking is the dark stuff is left over deposits from gas in the tank and fuel lines. The white stuff is most likely water and corrosion deposits from aluminum.

This is why it's important to check your fuel filter with E85 and one reason I put mine against the firewall, so it's easy to get at.

 

[The_Six]

Ive been wondering with using my origanl tank if I should get a new one worried Ill get gummed up from old fuel .

 

[gntyDenver]

Everything is NEW... New tank summit sump welded in and coated new fuel lines ....my fuel rails are champion aluminin but injectors are PERFECT so the problem is in the rear within prefilter I believe but im still kinda stuck with this issue..

 

[The_Six]

some one else on the board running e-85 and a sumped tank coated had a problem with the coating coming off just cant remeber who it was.

 

[austinibew145]

some one else on the board running e-85 and a sumped tank coated had a problem with the coating coming off just cant remeber who it was.

I think you are referring to me

 

[austinibew145]

I discovered some problems, when I pulled my motor apart this last few weeks . There was some rubbery gunk on injectors. You can see it in my post parts on the way

 

[PLAINWHITE T]

There's a good article in the January 2011 issue of Hot Rod magazine that discusses the rubber hose breakdown issues caused by E85 and other newer fuel additives. The data in that article backs up the studies done by the "mad scientists" at Turbo Farm West which shows that heat, when combined with E85 is a killer to the old-school style rubber hoses. According to the article, it appears that teflon-based hoses is the way to go.

 

[Racetronix]

There's a good article in the January 2011 issue of Hot Rod magazine that discusses the rubber hose breakdown issues caused by E85 and other newer fuel additives. The data in that article backs up the studies done by the "mad scientists" at Turbo Farm West which shows that heat, when combined with E85 is a killer to the old-school style rubber hoses. According to the article, it appears that teflon-based hoses is the way to go.

............... :wink:

 

[jdpolzin]

There's a good article in the January 2011 issue of Hot Rod magazine that discusses the rubber hose breakdown issues caused by E85 and other newer fuel additives. The data in that article backs up the studies done by the "mad scientists" at Turbo Farm West which shows that heat, when combined with E85 is a killer to the old-school style rubber hoses. According to the article, it appears that teflon-based hoses is the way to go.

Thanks for the good words Chuck!!!!

Here's a link to our little bit of info if anybody really cares to read.:
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/e85-technical-forum/276679-parts-way.html

It seems like the rubber started to disolve even within hours of exposing it to E85 unheated but the heat was pretty much an accelerator. I just got a call about the article today in Hot Rod. I'll be picking me up a copy this weekend to see ehat they have to say about it.

 

[PLAINWHITE T]

Thanks for the good words Chuck!!!!

No problem....for the life of me, I don't know why I took such interest in that article!

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Ah great, old school rubber, is that the same as the new school AN Stainless lines? Probably so it looks like we'll all have to add ditching the stock lines to this mod.

 

[jdpolzin]

Ah great, old school rubber, is that the same as the new school AN Stainless lines? Probably so it looks like we'll all have to add ditching the stock lines to this mod.

Actually most guys running stock lines arent seeing any problems as long the the old rubber lines by the fuel tank are replaced. The problems people are having is from old dry rubber and the guys running their entire system with AN lines.

Replace the old rubber lines with teflon hose and you'll be fine.

 

[bsdlinux]

Actually most guys running stock lines arent seeing any problems as long the the old rubber lines by the fuel tank are replaced. The problems people are having is from old dry rubber and the guys running their entire system with AN lines.

Replace the old rubber lines with teflon hose and you'll be fine.

I'm one of those guys running the stock lines. My car was basically all stock so there was no need to upgrade the lines. The previous owner replaced the intank pump with a Kirban replacement but I don't know the conditions of the rubber lines. The guy was fairly anal so I'm assuming those were replaced but I doubt with the teflon.

I've run 10,000s of miles with E-85 on this car and have not seen any issue but I think we now know why, heat.. As previously stated E-85 exposure plus heat really seems to speed up the rubber dissolving issue. There is just not much heat back above my gas tank especially with type of exhaust I have.
I've drove this car as a DD for over 2 years in the summer in 100+ heat.

Originally I thought maybe the fact that I was running 50/50 mix might mitigate the issue somewhat but I did run over 10,000 miles at one time of straight E-85 through my 83 injectors and did not see any gunk when I changed back to the smaller injectors for a few months.


Upgrading the hoses is not that big of a deal since most that will want to run E-85 and run fast will need a pump upgrade anyway. My plan is upgrade the all the lines on the GN next spring.


Thanks to everyone for detective work and testing. I think we all have a better idea now on the whats, the whys and the hows.

 

[Way2QWK]

Is this good for replacing the factory rubber tank lines outside the tank? http://www.summitracing.com/parts/RUS-632110/
Does anyone know if its -6 or -8 to connect to stock sender and hard lines? Maybe I missed it in the thread but what is safe for that small 2" piece from pump to sender that is submerged in fuel?