jasjamz
THS Racer
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
- Messages
- 5,981
It will have more information on the front side of the chip but Do Not Remove It out of the ECM . It may loose any tune settings if you do. Looks to be one of TurboBob's chips.
EGR - Yes or No?
- Thread starter BoyWonder
- Start date
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I had another thread and they say it "looks like" one from Full Throttle.
But as always - not definitive - but people guessing, so they can excercise their fingers I suppose.
Then there was this mysterious reference to some Gen II thing for tuning.
Uggghhh..again.
Then the usual "go to Eric" statement..
Thanks guys...I'll alert the media... ;-)
So - I dunno...
TurboBob...I gotta get me one of dem der cool nicknames..
So....you mean on the underside of the chip?
I suppose whatever tuning info is retained, even if the Orange lead to the ECM is unplugged?
Which it is right now...as I'm changing the driver's side valve cover to a shiny one, and get really tired of seeing those pesky sparks from the alternator lead.
As we electrical engineers say - it is - "non-volatile memory"?
And so if the above is true - then how do I get there from here?
Dang - these cars take up some of my valuable time - from doing nothing.
;-)
jasjamz
THS Racer
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2004
- Messages
- 5,981
Well TurboBob's is Bob Bailey. He is the man behind the cool stuff like the Powerlogger, Scanmaster, Translators....and the chips that came from Full Throttle. Turbo Tweak is Eric Marshal. Both make great products.
As for your chip yes I believe those still retain the memory with the battery disconnected. Now if it is removed from the ECM, not sure. That's why I wouldn't until you know the changes made or if it will hold memory.
As for your chip yes I believe those still retain the memory with the battery disconnected. Now if it is removed from the ECM, not sure. That's why I wouldn't until you know the changes made or if it will hold memory.
Gotchya...good info.
Those are two quite impressive resumes.
Gee - that's all Bob has accomplished?.."only" the Scanmaster; Powerlogger, etc.
What's his problem? ;-)
And to think in 1987 I thought I was all big-n-bad when I got my buddy at GM to get me a copy of the mysterious "FBI" chip - sans top end fuel cutoff.
Back when I could buy and run 245ZR Goodyear Gatorbacks and wanted / needed that extra top end.
My - how things have changed.
I think I'll contact Bob and find out the particulars of this chip.
And get any advice of ...whatever...leaving it alone probably! ;-)
Do I write TurboBob here, at Full Throttle, or a mythical Turbo North Pole?
"Dear Turbo Bob,
I've been a good boy this year and wanted to ask for..."
hello; I'm back. I was a little out of it last night as I didn't look at the heads very well but it's very obvious what happened. There are a bunch of people that has removed all the EGR stuff with no ill effects. I'm surprized you havn't got much responce. It is a holiday weekend so maybe that's it.
I hate saying this but do a search on the EGR subject for more answers.
have fun
IBBY
I hate saying this but do a search on the EGR subject for more answers.
have fun
IBBY
Be aware though; with no EGR activity, the usual chip mid-range timing is excessive. You'll probably experience detonation at mid-throttle, cruising slightly uphill. The EGR exhaust gas cycling thru the engine actually has a cooling effect, which allows more timing advance in those cells. Without the EGR, the cooling effect disappears. Simply removing the EGR on your un-modded chip will probably cause detonation - especially if you're running alky and low octane (91) fuel.
Be sure the chip matches the "NO EGR" adjustments.
Be sure the chip matches the "NO EGR" adjustments.
EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) is used on engines primarily for one reason - to lower the amount of NOx the engine produces at part-throttle. Exhaust gas is simply fuel and air that has already been burnt. In consists mostly of carbon dioxide and water vapor, neither of which burn, so exhaust gas is what we call "inert".
By introducing some "inert" exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber, the speed at which combustion takes place is reduced. This has the effect of lowering the peak temperature of combustion. The lower the peak temperature of combustion, the less NOx is produced. That is why it was extensively used on cars for decades, and still is on some modern engines.
A few things to remember about EGR:
1. Under conditions when EGR is activated, more advanced spark timing is required to achieve best torque. Remember, combustion is slowed by the presence of EGR in the combustion chamber, so the spark must initiate combustion earlier to get the most torque at a given engine speed and throttle position.
2. EGR, at least the kind that comes through an EGR valve, is not introduced into the combustion chambers at WOT (to help the engine make the most power) and at idle (EGR at idle reduces combustion stability and causes rough idling). The only time the EGR valve is activated on our cars is when the transmission is in gear and the throttle is partially open (i.e. cruising down the highway).
3. If your chip is designed to run with EGR, and you disconnect the EGR valve, then your spark timing at part throttle will be too advanced. This could lead to part-throttle knock and knock retard. Most of the aftermarket chip makers assume that the EGR valve is been disconnected and/or removed, so they adjust (retard) part-throttle spark timing to compensate.
So, bottom line, you need to confirm that your chip is set-up to NOT run the EGR valve before you remove the EGR system. As I said before, if you unplug your EGR solenoid and drive the car and the check engine light comes on, your chip is almost certainly set-up to use EGR. If you unplug your EGR solenoid and drive the car, and the check engine light does NOT come on, your chip is almost certaily set-up to NOT use EGR. If you are unsure, you can contact the chip maker to be sure.
By introducing some "inert" exhaust gas back into the combustion chamber, the speed at which combustion takes place is reduced. This has the effect of lowering the peak temperature of combustion. The lower the peak temperature of combustion, the less NOx is produced. That is why it was extensively used on cars for decades, and still is on some modern engines.
A few things to remember about EGR:
1. Under conditions when EGR is activated, more advanced spark timing is required to achieve best torque. Remember, combustion is slowed by the presence of EGR in the combustion chamber, so the spark must initiate combustion earlier to get the most torque at a given engine speed and throttle position.
2. EGR, at least the kind that comes through an EGR valve, is not introduced into the combustion chambers at WOT (to help the engine make the most power) and at idle (EGR at idle reduces combustion stability and causes rough idling). The only time the EGR valve is activated on our cars is when the transmission is in gear and the throttle is partially open (i.e. cruising down the highway).
3. If your chip is designed to run with EGR, and you disconnect the EGR valve, then your spark timing at part throttle will be too advanced. This could lead to part-throttle knock and knock retard. Most of the aftermarket chip makers assume that the EGR valve is been disconnected and/or removed, so they adjust (retard) part-throttle spark timing to compensate.
So, bottom line, you need to confirm that your chip is set-up to NOT run the EGR valve before you remove the EGR system. As I said before, if you unplug your EGR solenoid and drive the car and the check engine light comes on, your chip is almost certainly set-up to use EGR. If you unplug your EGR solenoid and drive the car, and the check engine light does NOT come on, your chip is almost certaily set-up to NOT use EGR. If you are unsure, you can contact the chip maker to be sure.
OK did a search and bringing this topic back from dead... i have debated taking my egr off and blocking it with plate... only reason being im not sure its working properly and im sorta chasing parts and throwing money at it to get it to act straight!...
i guess im curious is how would i know if my egr is bad? what i the symptoms? how could it hurt you running wise?
i guess im curious is how would i know if my egr is bad? what i the symptoms? how could it hurt you running wise?
As explained above, the EGR valve only operates when the car is in gear, and when you are at part-throttle. It should be closed at idle and WOT. If your EGR valve is stuck open, you will experience a rough idle, and you might feel some roughness or surging when cruising. If the vacuum diaphragm in the EGR valve is torn, then the EGR valve won't activate, and you might get some part-throttle spark knock if you are running an old chip. The more modern chips are set-up to never open the EGR, and spark timing is adjusted accordingly.
How I check mine - when the engine idling, reach under to valve and push upward on the internal metal part. As soon as you do, you will introduce EGR into the intake, and the engine will run rough or stall. Once you release the internal metal part, it should return to it's home position, and the idle should smooth out. If the internal metal part doesn't move smoothly back to home position and the idle stays rough after you release it, your EGR valve is sticking. If the internal metal part appears to move smoothly back to home position, but the idle stays rough, there might be a piece of debris inside the pintle valve of the EGR that is preventing it from sealing when closing. Right before I do the emissions test, after I've installed an older chip that runs the EGR system, I tee a vacuum gauge into the line between the EGR solenoid and EGR valve and drive the car. At part throttle while in gear, I can see the EGR solenoid sending a vacuum signal to the EGR valve. I can also see that the vacuum goes to zero when I'm at idle, WOT, or out of gear.
If you do an emissions test where they test your exhaust while the rear tires are on dyno rolls, you will need a functioning EGR system to pass. If you don't need to do an emissions test and have a modern chip that doesn't run the EGR valve, then removing it and blocking off the hole is fine.
How I check mine - when the engine idling, reach under to valve and push upward on the internal metal part. As soon as you do, you will introduce EGR into the intake, and the engine will run rough or stall. Once you release the internal metal part, it should return to it's home position, and the idle should smooth out. If the internal metal part doesn't move smoothly back to home position and the idle stays rough after you release it, your EGR valve is sticking. If the internal metal part appears to move smoothly back to home position, but the idle stays rough, there might be a piece of debris inside the pintle valve of the EGR that is preventing it from sealing when closing. Right before I do the emissions test, after I've installed an older chip that runs the EGR system, I tee a vacuum gauge into the line between the EGR solenoid and EGR valve and drive the car. At part throttle while in gear, I can see the EGR solenoid sending a vacuum signal to the EGR valve. I can also see that the vacuum goes to zero when I'm at idle, WOT, or out of gear.
If you do an emissions test where they test your exhaust while the rear tires are on dyno rolls, you will need a functioning EGR system to pass. If you don't need to do an emissions test and have a modern chip that doesn't run the EGR valve, then removing it and blocking off the hole is fine.
that answers alot of my questions. thanks! the way you described is mine sounds like it is sticking..., rough idle, getting a little spark knock when is shouldn't etc...i am running an older red arstrong chip so not sure if its egr or non egr or not...im trying to get all running well first then im TT chip and alky... just want it perfect before i do bang on it a little... sounds like i just need to delete it then as it don't really add anything...and im not in a smog state for emmissions (KY)...soo...
I had a Red Armstrong chip in my car many years ago. I'm pretty sure it ran the EGR valve at part throttle, like the stock chip does.
In your case, I would remove the EGR valve and install the block-off plate. Make sure to plug the vacuum line that goes between the EGR solenoid and the (now removed) EGR valve. I think as long as you leave the EGR solenoid connected to the electrical connector, it won't trigger the check engine soon light. Once you get a more modern chip, you can remove the EGR solenoid, since the modern chips are designed to ignore it.
I would recommend keeping all of the EGR stuff in a box somewhere in case you move or sell the car.
In your case, I would remove the EGR valve and install the block-off plate. Make sure to plug the vacuum line that goes between the EGR solenoid and the (now removed) EGR valve. I think as long as you leave the EGR solenoid connected to the electrical connector, it won't trigger the check engine soon light. Once you get a more modern chip, you can remove the EGR solenoid, since the modern chips are designed to ignore it.
I would recommend keeping all of the EGR stuff in a box somewhere in case you move or sell the car.
I had an egr problem that ive never seen duplicated on here. My car had a lean miss AND high o2's. I got a pressure tester that another turbo buddy had made from plexiglass that could be placed against various engine opening. I pressurized the intake and got soapy water and poured over possible leak sites. Of all things, the egr was leaking from the point where the pintle meets the egr body. (leaking to atmosphere like about a 1/8 hose would). SO, the engine had a vac leak at vacuum conditoins, AND a boost leak under boost conditions.
Also realize that no egr will allow future removing of egr tower in manifoldy/moldy.
Also realize that no egr will allow future removing of egr tower in manifoldy/moldy.
