Electric Water Pump for stage motor???

nick,

after reading the description on TA's site, dont you think that it sounds a bit weird that the test car ran at 230 deg. until this pump? Not to discredit TA's new pump, but i have never seen a TR idle at 230 unless there was a major malfunction . the only time i have seen temps that high is when i forgot to put my electric pumps fuse in.

Not to discredit you [[j/k!], but here in the desert, TR's can and do run at well over 200 degrees in our 110+ temps. :D

Actually this test was on TA's "test mule", a stock 1987 TR with the original radiator. The thinking was if it works here, it would work even better on a "normal" TR.

The radiator was replaced, and it now runs well below 230. :)
 
have you been drinking? Who would test a water pump by disconnecting the fan?

Is 230 deg. a normal idle temp for a buick 350?

please post with relevance in the future.

No, but sure could use a Captain and coke, you buying?

Call me crazy, but when I swapped to the F body fan I timed the raise in temp to see if the aluminum rad cooled better, without outside help (i.e. the fan) compared to the stocker. Same could apply for the water pump, to see if the one piece in question, the pump in this case, assisted in cooling. Granted, I did not let it get anywhere near 230...

Would hope 230 degree at idle is not normal, but who knows, could be a 350 with hardblok in it for all I know. What I meant was, there are lots of variables to take into account, you can't really pull too much info from that TA ad.

Relevant? I guess you are the judge...
 
This statement says it all. I never hear about success stories with the T-stat removed in a street car unless something is drastically wrong. ....
Allan G.

Allen, due to the fact that here in the desert we have 2-3 months where the temp is over 100 deg. for 2-3 months straight, and 3-4 weeks of 110+ plus temps, our environments are VERY different.

I also doubt that you do much racing in 100+ temps. :eek:

Another factor, I deal with very few Stage engines, but many alum block engines which dissipate heat very rapidly.

I respect what you have found to be different than what we encounter, so our ultimate solutions work for each of us.

Since I do not have your conditions, I understand what works there and what works here, are not right or wrong, but just different. :biggrin:
 
Allen, due to the fact that here in the desert we have 2-3 months where the temp is over 100 deg. for 2-3 months straight, and 3-4 weeks of 110+ plus temps, our environments are VERY different.

I also doubt that you do much racing in 100+ temps. :eek:

Another factor, I deal with very few Stage engines, but many alum block engines which dissipate heat very rapidly.

I respect what you have found to be different than what we encounter, so our ultimate solutions work for each of us.

Since I do not have your conditions, I understand what works there and what works here, are not right or wrong, but just different. :biggrin:

There is more things to consider here with mechanical pumps. Since they are a centrifical type pump and interface with the timing cover, the clearance between the pump and cover is never checked and is a big influence on pump efficiency. Don't get me wrong, I would run a better mechanical pump if given a choice simply for the ease of belt routing and availability of pulleys. I just don't believe that higher flow at higher RPM is needed. The water flow at low RPM and idle speeds is more sensitive and were an electric pump is far better.
Allan G.
 
I really do not buy "They move just the right amount of water for maximum heat transfer", at least in our turbo engines?

The electric pump runs at one speed for all situations. The mechanical pump WILL flow more water as the RPM increases. I have never encountered "flow too fast that no heat transfer takes place" in any street or strip application with any Buick?

We run our street cars here in the summer w/o a t'stat, and they ALWAYS run cooler.

You are correct in that most of the cooling takes place on the return road, especially as most race cars do not use a thermostat. But since the engine driven pump flows more at RPM, the coolant temp peaks lower than with the electric pump.

Let me also state that the TA pump is a completely redesigned pump casting and is specially machined for the also new pump impeller. So this pump is completely different than stock units, even though it is a direct replacement.

In my case, I can state, and my logs will show cooler temp at the end of a run since I installed the new TA pump, as well a quicker cool down by the time I return to the pit.

But the extra flow at high RPM has shown to be a benefit to added HP as was demonstrated when Kenny D. tried the TA pump on his engine dyno. The additional water flow in the heads, especially around the exhaust valves, showed a slight increase in HP.

One advantage an electric pump does have in a race car is that it can run in the pit for additional cool down if needed.

I do have to admit my experience with electric pumps is limited, and I am not a fan of them also due to reliability issues. Seen many racers have their event ruined with an electric pump failure. :(

I do want to make a final comment, I limit my tech posts and comments to actual experience with my car or others where I am personally involved, so it is not fiction or guessing. If it is my opinion, I will state that up front. The TA parts on my car I purchase, so there is no underlying payback for my public endorsement of their product. They do their best to put out a good product, and it shows in their track record. :)


Nick, as always, thanks for that bit of info. I had no idea this water pump even existed until you mentioned it. That will be my X-Mas gift to myself this year.
 
question for nick,

how close to the MOROSO unit is the TA pump?

I need a pump that matches the drive shaft diameter of the Moroso unit, but I havent found a buick one simular yet..


A.j.
 
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