Failed MD emissions twice due to HC, NEED HELP

[ez at nova]

Took my car to get its test yesterday. I left my Jay C 93 chip in, running around 42 lbs (line off). I figured it may pass since last time I passed with flying colors. (On a side note, I now realized I fast passed with nearly zero emissions last time because the dude only put a sniffer on the RIGHT tailpipe of my ATR crossover, and barely anything comes out that one!) Anyway, the car has 009's, 160 degree ts, and I put on my ATR high flow cat. The ride there was a good hour ,so the cat was plenty hot.
First time on the dyno I was fine with NOx and CO, but the limit on HC is 1.8 gpm and I blew 2.3. I thought, ok, that Jay C chip was a dumb idea. I told the tech's I'd be back in an hour. I took the car down the road, swapped in the stock chip and lowered the crap out of the FP, down to about 31 (the techs told me high HC were due to richness). When I went back, I guess the car was running so lean that it stalled when the guy came off the gas hard. He restarted the test. This time, NOx and CO were about cut in half, way below limits, but HC went UP to 2.7 gpm! I was so frustrated. So, I'm out of luck and need some help. Here are my leads so far:

The oil is "old" - changed last winter, 2000 miles ago, maybe it has HC built up in it.
The car "puffs" a small oil cloud randomly somtimes sitting at idle, but goes away under throttle.
The car spits "black carbon gunk" (especially with no cat, haven't noticed how much WITH the cat) that I've heard other TR's do too. Maybe that is sending HC through the roof
Maybe the ATR high flow cat isn't gonna cut it
Maybe I need a good emissions chip and to tune the car right instead of just cranking FP down with the stocker

Also, as another hint, the testing facility gives you a dyno graph of the levels vs throttle vs time, and the HC level was fine under idle and light throttle, it was duting the 3 or 4 moderate throttle parts that HC level shot through the roof. I can scan the graph and post it if it will help.

If anyone can help, please let me know.

 

[gofstbuick]

High HC coupled with high CO may indicate mixture is too rich, but excessive HC and excessively low CO is probably lean misfire. The car stalled during deceleration and you attributed that to lean and you probably are correct. Try not making such a radical change in fuel pressure.

 

[ez at nova]

Well, I guess I wouldn't say EXCESSIVELY low CO, just within a safe range of passing. I was actually mistaken, in looking at my second pass vs first pass #'s, the CO did get worse, about proportional to the HC (but the CO was still in passing range). The NOx dropped a bit the second time.
I am in the process of communicating with Scott Simpson in hopes of geting a chip and some other info. I figure if I throw a chip, a fresh oil change, a fresh set of plugs, some G2P, and some 91 octane the thing had better pass. After that my only option short of taking it to my mechanic to look over would be to get a stock full restriction cat in lieu of the ATR unit.

 

[TurboJim]

Dude, there is no WAY you passed CO with 009's and a stock chip...I mean stock for 28's.

What were CO, NO *and* HC....and what are the cutpoints for each.

With this info we can possibly give you some guidance.

PS: If you can give us O2 and CO2 that would help as well.

 

[ez at nova]

Well, I definitely did pass the other two categories other than HC, and by a fair margin...both with Jay's chip, and a stocker. The emissions forms are in the glove box, which is in my car, which is under the cover, which is under severe thunderstorms at the moment. I will post exact numbers tomorrow afternoon.

 

[ez at nova]

Here are the numbers

Sorry for the delay. Here are the numbers. Hopefully this will shed some more light on the situation to you guru's.

FIRST RUN - Jay Carter 93 chip, same as my street setup except I put the ATR cat on.

HC - 2.4 GPM (FAIL!) - limit - 1.8
CO - 19.0 GPM (PASS) - limit - 30
NOx - 1.1 GPM (PASS) - limit - 2.8
CO2 - 406.58 GPM - no state limit

SECOND RUN - stock chip, lowered FP to about 31 or 32 vac off

HC - 2.75 (yes, WORSE) (FAIL!)
CO - 22.483 (yes, ALSO WORSE, but still pass)
NOx - 0.89 (hey, I'm golden in this area!)

I also have the dyno graphs that have the pollutants vs vehicle speed with a state stadard line, too. I can scan it and email it if it will help anyone. Pretty much the only time I was in the passing range with HC was under deceleration or constant speed.

Thanks guys

 

[drew666]

Failed Emissions

Check my before and after #'s on 9/29. Subject Heading: EGR & TVS. I did all of the things you did trying to pass. If you look at the before and after #'s on the two posts you will notice a dramatic differance. Got the good #'s and pass only after installing a new o2 sensor and a new CAT. You have more mods than I do, but you should still pass with a good CAT.

 

[ez at nova]

Ideas anyone?

So, obviously I'll do everything I can that has been discussed to help pass emissions this time, but can anyone lend some insight as to problems the car might have in its normal running state, given the first set of emissions results? I'm hearing it said that a TR in good tne should easily pass with a cat, and that wasn't my case, so something must be off...

 

[sam87]

clean the engine

Use a can of GM top engine cleaner to clean intake & valves, prior to changing oil. It works! Instructions are on gnttype & on the can. Use 2 cans if it's really dirty. Your other proposed fixes look ok.

 

[gofstbuick]

Re: Here are the numbers

Originally posted by ez at nova
FIRST RUN - Jay Carter 93 chip, same as my street setup except I put the ATR cat on.

HC - 2.4 GPM (FAIL!) - limit - 1.8
CO - 19.0 GPM (PASS) - limit - 30
NOx - 1.1 GPM (PASS) - limit - 2.8
CO2 - 406.58 GPM - no state limit

SECOND RUN - stock chip, lowered FP to about 31 or 32 vac off

HC - 2.75 (yes, WORSE) (FAIL!)
CO - 22.483 (yes, ALSO WORSE, but still pass)
NOx - 0.89 (hey, I'm golden in this area!)
Thanks guys

Looks like you got the emissions too rich on the second test, but at 31-32 psi, you're about as lean as you could go. The only reason the NOx decreased is because the mixture is richer in test #2 than test #1. But if you could get the emissions leaner, it will probably pass. How is the O2 sensor?

 

[ez at nova]

I figure my O2 must be fine (I just posted a question about it last night in scanner forum). I thought it was updating TOO fast, but apparently that's normal. It's not that old (maybe 1 - 2 years, and 3 - 4k miles, and maybe three 1/4 miles runs on 110.) But, the thing seems to be updating cross counts like a champ.
The one in there now is a purple wire GM. I have one in the garage that is a Tomco and it LOOKS new, but I just don't know if it is. There's no "gunk" on the thing if that is a definitive factor in being able to tell. I was going to put that one in, but #1 I'm not 100% positive it's not my old one that's shot and #2, why bother if this GM one is working fine.

 

[Slow91z]

K here's a stupid question.. you are driving the car around for a while making sure the O2 is hot before you test it correct??

 

[ez at nova]

I guess you mean cat, not O2, but anyway, yeah teh MD testing station is over an hour away from me.

 

[Slow91z]

No I meant O2...unless you have a heated O2 (which did not come stock on our cars) It has to heat up before it works also, but if you drive an hour that clears up that possiblity.

 

[ijames]

Joe, he was using a stock chip with 009 injectors on his second test, so I'd be surprised if even at 31 psi he wasn't at the blm learn limit of 105, which is why he was so rich. The O2 sounds fine, and both cat and O2 need to be nice and hot but if you drove an hour and then got tested you were fine. Where do you live, that you have to go that far to be tested? I thought you were in Silver Spring, and the station in Columbia should only be 30 minutes. The jc chip should be okay, just check that the blm at 65 mph cruise is 128 +/- about 10 (so 118-138), and ajust your fuel pressure if needed to get there. Jay also runs the fan continuously, though, so your engine won't be really up to temp, which hurts some. I'm in Laurel, and I've made some custom emissions chips for a few people (I have access to a friend's hc/co analyzer for fine tuning). Give me an email if you need to, or just to talk over other stuff.

 

[ez at nova]

Thanks ijames,
Good point about it being rich with the stock chip even lowering FP sinc eI have the 009's. My BLM's were locked steady at 105
Regardless, I failed like a dumb kid at Harvard the first go around with the JC chip in there and my BLM's are 118 with that chip.
I sent Scott Simpson a paypal for one of his chips a week or so ago since I heard his were pretty good stuff, so hopefully when that gets to me things will improve too.
Oh, I reside in PA but the car is a MD car so that's why I had to go so far.

 

[ijames]

Don't know how far into PA you are, but we get together the first Tuesday of each month at the North Laurel Pizza Hut, on Rt 1 south of Hwy 32, from 7 to about 9-10 pm. About 40 minutes from Towson/695. Come on down Nov. 4.

 

[ez at nova]

UPDATE

Well, I FINALLY passed, and with flying colors! I FAST PASSED! The guy testing it says "uh- oh! must be a computer error" jokingly since I had tried twice already and he remembered my car.
Anyway, just to help other out in the future, I don't know what exactly helped the most, but here's all I did:

new plugs (ngk UR5)
new wires
oil/filter change
cleaned intercooler
cleaned air filter
GM top engine cleaner
1 bottle of G2P in the last tank of gas and another one when I went for the test today
emissions chip instead of my Jay Carter street chip
disconnected wastegate rod

The car still spit tons of black carbon out of the drivers pipe as of this morning, but I guess it didn't matter that much.

For comparrison, here are my old #s

HC - 2.75 (FAIL!)
CO - 22.483
NOx - 0.89

Here are mine from today

HC 0.41 (pass is 1.8 or lower)
CO 3.3
NOx - 0.38

 

[Royal-T-Ltd]

hey. does your exhaust still stink - I've been tryin to pass with 009's for a while.

 

[ez at nova]

I don't fully recall if the smell was different with the emissions chip in. Like I said, it did still fling at least as much as usual black carbon crud out the pipe when I started teh car and stabbed the gas. My exhaust never stinks (like sulfer)...it sometimes smells rich at startup, but that's normal for most cars.