Faster spool wanted

[chadly]

I’ve finally, after all summer of tinkering got my car running good. However spool on low seems slow. I notice that 0-7 psi it builds boost slow. If I’m at a dead stop and just jump from the brake to WOT I will be going 20/25mph before I’m at full boost of 15psi. 8psi to 15psi the needle moves so fast its tough to even watch. In other words I’m doing 7psi at 20mph then the boost builds fast and my brand new 265/50/15 start to melt. I’ve got no exhaust leaks that I’m aware of. Is this just something I will have to deal with as result of the turbo I have? Anything I can do to get it to respond a little quicker those first 7psi’s? Also if I launch with a few psi it melts the tire all though first and second gear.

Thanks
Chad

 

[QUIP'6']

I’ve finally, after all summer of tinkering got my car running good. However spool on low seems slow. I notice that 0-7 psi it builds boost slow. If I’m at a dead stop and just jump from the brake to WOT I will be going 20/25mph before I’m at full boost of 15psi. 8psi to 15psi the needle moves so fast its tough to even watch. In other words I’m doing 7psi at 20mph then the boost builds fast and my brand new 265/50/15 start to melt. I’ve got no exhaust leaks that I’m aware of. Is this just something I will have to deal with as result of the turbo I have? Anything I can do to get it to respond a little quicker those first 7psi’s? Also if I launch with a few psi it melts the tire all though first and second gear.

Thanks
Chad

try an rjc bleeder valve it will make a big difference. also see if your rich on the bottom end and if you wastegate is sealing properly

 

[Dreamcar86]

Add some timing in your chip to 1 and 2 gear and take out some fuel and that should help. Have you adjusted your chip or is it still set on factory defaults?

 

[87geeinn]

As Dreamcar86 noted, you can take fuel out of 1st gear and add some 1st/2nd gear timing in the TurboTweak chip to get things spooling up quicker. Myself, I removed 14% WOT fuel out of 1st and added 1.8* timing in 1st/2nd. That coupled with a manual boost controller (Hallman), spooling up is not a problem.

 

[chadly]

Thanks guys.

I’ve not heard of the RJC bleeder valve until now. I read about it on their web page and it sounds good. I may do search to see what I can find out about it on the forum, or start another thread.

How do you know if your wastegate is sealing properly?

I’ve not yet done any adjusting with my new chip. I just got my trans redone last weekend and I did not want to get too crazy until it was done. Now it’s too hot and humid to tune. I do know that it’s running rich on lower rmps, as the blm’s are 123.
Thanks
Chad

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Get a manual boost controller ( ebay for $10 ) and adjust it ( with the manual boost controllers adjustable rod) at the boost you are currently running. Then add boost by turning in the wastegates rod and look out, mega spool.

Another nod for adding timing, especially if you plan on using alky.

 

[QUIP'6']

I’ve not heard of the RJC bleeder valve until now. I read about it on their web page and it sounds good. I may do search to see what I can find out about it on the forum, or start another thread.

How do you know if your wastegate is sealing properly?

I’ve not yet done any adjusting with my new chip. I just got my trans redone last weekend and I did not want to get too crazy until it was done. Now it’s too hot and humid to tune. I do know that it’s running rich on lower rmps, as the blm’s are 123.
Thanks
Chad

pull your downpipe away from turbo and see if you have a 1/8 inch ring of carbon around your wastegate hole if it is more to oneside and showing nothing on the otherside then i would suspect you are leaking there

 

[c&cgn]

In my experience, you subtract timing for better spoolup, not add timing.

Lower timing = higher EGT's (hotter exhaust). Hotter exhaust usually equals quicker spoolup.

I agree with pulling fuel, that will also help spoolup. I have been doing this with my Translator + for many years now.

Slow spoolup is also a bit of a characteristic of the 51 turbo you are running as well. I never found too many people that liked that turbo as much as a TE44/TA49.

 

[Underboost]

Make sure you have 43psi at the regulator while using the TT chip. To much fuel psi at the regulator will also slow spool.

 

[300kGN]

If all above doesn't help, get a L/U converter with 2800 to 3000 stall. That made shocking improvements in mine. 1.6xx 60's with less than 1psi launch on BFG D/R's
Oops! Never mind, just re-read your specs, ie. 911 3k. Is it stalling properly?

 

[QUIP'6']

In my experience, you subtract timing for better spoolup, not add timing.

Lower timing = higher EGT's (hotter exhaust). Hotter exhaust usually equals quicker spoolup.

I agree with pulling fuel, that will also help spoolup. I have been doing this with my Translator + for many years now.

Slow spoolup is also a bit of a characteristic of the 51 turbo you are running as well. I never found too many people that liked that turbo as much as a TE44/TA49.

i would have to disagree on the lower timing issue. at low rpm less timing would not cause higher egts at wot it would because you are flowing more air but at lower rpm like spooling up lower timing would cause it to flood out at spool slow because of spark but more agressive timing would in turn give a better 60 foot

 

[VadersV6]

Mine spools up so much quicker with higher timing that its undeniable. Your o2's can be very deceiving as well. They can say 750's, and you can be running really fat. Pull some fuel, and sometimes you'll see that your o2's go UP, not down. Once you're in a range thats too rich or too lean, the factory o2 numbers are totally unreliable. Pull fuel until they reach the 600 range, then add fuel back, just so you know you're in the right area. I was running 45psi line off fuel pressure, 4% rich for a long time, and my o2's said about 820. I dropped my fuel pressure to 32psi line off for smog, and realized my car didnt slow down or go lean at WOT. But the turbo didnt spool like it should and it didnt run all that strong even at high boost. Last weekend I went to 6% lean on WOT fuel and 8% lean on spool fuel, instead of being totally opposite on the rich side (I thought thats where I should be given my o2 numbers and the low fuel pressure) with the extender's default 23 degrees of timing (alky on 9 and 23psi), and my car woke up so much its crazy. My tires damn near blow off the rims in 2nd gear and it pulls HARD. Crazy thing is that my 02's havent changed at all. But the difference is astounding. It spools so much faster now than I thought it could. Pull fuel out till the engine starts knocking and then add a little. Keep timing as high as you can and spray as little alky as you need to...my opinion on that has changed...you dont want to wash oil off the cylinder walls. I have my own boost controller, where I used a pressure regulator from fabco air, intended for air/oil cylinders...it gives a perfect 1psi boost adjustment for every 1 turn of teh knob, and I keep the wastegate arm on the loose side...where I only have to pull it about 1/8" to pop the arm on the flapper lever. This seems to give me the fastest spool.

 

[c&cgn]

Well, when the Translator + came out quite a few years ago, the consensus was to pull base timing and add it back in @ WOT to aid in spoolup.

I do that in conjunction with changing fueling in the Extender chip and it has worked for me for the past 5 years. 10.2's and 1.4 60' times seem to agree with my method tuning :biggrin:

I've experimented with adding timing, and when I did that, it spooled worse. Just my experience. YMMV

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Pulling the timing makes sense on a manual, autos need torque and without timing you are not getting that much.

 

[vacuum 6]

RJC boost controller spools fast. The controller does not bleed off until the it reaches the desired level and then puck opens = faster spool ups.

 

[bison]

Mine spools up so much quicker with higher timing that its undeniable. Your o2's can be very deceiving as well. They can say 750's, and you can be running really fat. Pull some fuel, and sometimes you'll see that your o2's go UP, not down. Once you're in a range thats too rich or too lean, the factory o2 numbers are totally unreliable. Pull fuel until they reach the 600 range, then add fuel back, just so you know you're in the right area. I was running 45psi line off fuel pressure, 4% rich for a long time, and my o2's said about 820. I dropped my fuel pressure to 32psi line off for smog, and realized my car didnt slow down or go lean at WOT. But the turbo didnt spool like it should and it didnt run all that strong even at high boost. Last weekend I went to 6% lean on WOT fuel and 8% lean on spool fuel, instead of being totally opposite on the rich side (I thought thats where I should be given my o2 numbers and the low fuel pressure) with the extender's default 23 degrees of timing (alky on 9 and 23psi), and my car woke up so much its crazy. My tires damn near blow off the rims in 2nd gear and it pulls HARD. Crazy thing is that my 02's havent changed at all. But the difference is astounding. It spools so much faster now than I thought it could. Pull fuel out till the engine starts knocking and then add a little. Keep timing as high as you can and spray as little alky as you need to...my opinion on that has changed...you dont want to wash oil off the cylinder walls. I have my own boost controller, where I used a pressure regulator from fabco air, intended for air/oil cylinders...it gives a perfect 1psi boost adjustment for every 1 turn of teh knob, and I keep the wastegate arm on the loose side...where I only have to pull it about 1/8" to pop the arm on the flapper lever. This seems to give me the fastest spool.

This is why you need an external wideband datalogger. They are much more accurate and the numbers are more consistent. I adjust the wastegate arms with the RJC so the boost overshoots about 1psi. This usually means 3-4 turns past the point where it slips on with minimal spring tension. This way it hits a lot harder and the engine will easily tolerate it for a couple tenths of a second. Your a/f can be around 12.0:1 for a second in first. Some go even leaner like 12.3:1.

 

[VadersV6]

This is why you need an external wideband datalogger. They are much more accurate and the numbers are more consistent. I adjust the wastegate arms with the RJC so the boost overshoots about 1psi. This usually means 3-4 turns past the point where it slips on with minimal spring tension. This way it hits a lot harder and the engine will easily tolerate it for a couple tenths of a second. Your a/f can be around 12.0:1 for a second in first. Some go even leaner like 12.3:1.

Of course. I always tell everyone that the factory o2 is like an on/off switch because the voltage curve is so steep in relation to a/f. But when you can stay within 50mv and have a difference of 2 points a/f, then that factory o2 cant be relied on at all. I always tune to engine sound and KR on the scanmaster. You can have zero KR and still be knocking like a MOFO. Gotta know the sound of pre-ignition vs detonation to tune right, cause the knock sensor only picks up the more extreme of the 2. The RJC boost controller doesnt exactly work like alot of people think, where it stays sealed and then slams open. A ball bearing with a spring can ONLY act as a flow control. The air pressure pushes the ball off the seat, air seeps around the ball, pressure equalizes and the ball lands back on its seat, and then repeats the cycle. It will actually "buzz" because its cycling so fast...I know, I made my own of a few different designs and realized it CANT work how alot of people think. But in effect it is exactly the same as any flow control. I set my wastegate so I pull it between 1/16 and 1/8" before it pops on the lever...hardly any tension, and adjust my pressure regulator to get where I want. It seems that by keeping the wastegate arm kind of loose, but bleeding off the air to it, the puck can swing open for a moment when you first go WOT (like a pulse), which helps the turbine accelerate from a slow speed, and then the puck can seal and let the turbine accelerate to a much higher speed.

 

[Brianpell]

Hi Chuck, found a little exhaust leak opened so hopefully that's what's causing my slow spool up. But, how do you know what the timing is on these cars? I've never checked it before. I do have a powerlogger on the car and have a timing light somewhere in this mess if I need it.Hopefully tonight I can take it for a ride but if I still am not building any boost from a launch I was gonna adjust either the timing of fuel through the chip and see if it helps. I'm guessing add more timing but not sure. Thanks

 

[Mr.Spool]

Hi Chuck, found a little exhaust leak opened so hopefully that's what's causing my slow spool up. But, how do you know what the timing is on these cars? I've never checked it before. I do have a powerlogger on the car and have a timing light somewhere in this mess if I need it.Hopefully tonight I can take it for a ride but if I still am not building any boost from a launch I was gonna adjust either the timing of fuel through the chip and see if it helps. I'm guessing add more timing but not sure. Thanks

This thread is 10years old

 

[earlbrown]

Hi Chuck, found a little exhaust leak opened so hopefully that's what's causing my slow spool up. But, how do you know what the timing is on these cars? I've never checked it before. I do have a powerlogger on the car and have a timing light somewhere in this mess if I need it.Hopefully tonight I can take it for a ride but if I still am not building any boost from a launch I was gonna adjust either the timing of fuel through the chip and see if it helps. I'm guessing add more timing but not sure. Thanks

The sticker on the chip should tell you want you have. Unless you still have a stock chip. If that's the case, smash it with a hammer.


Then smash it again.

Is he chip you have burned for your exact combo?


With your slow boost... have you welded up the crack in your drivers side header yet?


Good job on searching the archives too.