Fel-Pro 9441PT Gasket Problems?

[Sleeper-6]

Has anyone else noticed a change in the construction of Fel-Pro's 9441PT gaskets? Myself and several local TR guys have had issues in the last year keeping these gaskets together. Previously there were no problems with them, but it seems that lately they may have changed something for the worse.

 

[Scooter3800]

Not sure how long ago the changes may have took place but I'm using 9441's that I purchased in December of 2007.

I've ran 22 psi on E85 and havent had a problem with them...

 

[QUIP'6']

Has anyone else noticed a change in the construction of Fel-Pro's 9441PT gaskets? Myself and several local TR guys have had issues in the last year keeping these gaskets together. Previously there were no problems with them, but it seems that lately they may have changed something for the worse.

post a picture

 

[49-blues]

I have 2 new sets that i havent used yet that i bought 2 years ago.

 

[Sleeper-6]

Here ya go. The lower gasket was in the car a few years and was beaten pretty bad before it went ka-boom. The upper gasket was only in a few months and was run with a much safer tune. You can see the newer gasket has a slightly more silver color to it. Also you can see the gasket "flaking" apart where the older one is still intact. Both installs done the same way with ARP bolts by me.

 

[Sleeper-6]

2 more

 

[bison]

Here ya go. The lower gasket was in the car a few years and was beaten pretty bad before it went ka-boom. The upper gasket was only in a few months and was run with a much safer tune. You can see the newer gasket has a slightly more silver color to it. Also you can see the gasket "flaking" apart where the older one is still intact. Both installs done the same way with ARP bolts by me.

Theres nothing wrong with the gasket construction. You heads are deflecting on the intake side. Probably due to a lot of detonation. Your definitely getting a decent amount of detonation there.

 

[bison]

Either what i mentioned above or the sealing surfaces are not flat or a combination of both. You shouldnt be having problems till your going at least 125mph in the quarter.

 

[turbofabricator]

Look closely and verify that there is a steel wire inside the fire ring. If there isn't, then they are NOT made per spec. This is the same issues with ROL head gaskets. I could not make out one in the photos. Maybe Fel-Pro has re-boxed gaskets by ROL. They do have the PN stamped on them by Fel-Pro, so this is interesting. Check for the inner wire, and post back the results. I have had good luck with the 9441's.

 

[Sleeper-6]

I'm not complaining that the older gasket blew, I know I knocked it real good and I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did. What concerns me is the sorry shape that the top gasket was in when I pulled the heads off for the rebuild. It was showing no signs of a blown gasket yet, but it looks like it wasn't far off.

I'll make a clean slice on the gaskets with my Dremel after work tomorrow and see what's inside the fire ring. I'll keep you posted.

 

[Sleeper-6]

I cut open each one and they look identical inside. Both have the wire ring inside the fire ring. I took a few measurements and they seem to match. I did notice that the newer gasket has a "slicker" feel to it. I'm guessing whatever they changed is in the composition of the coating over the steel core,

 

[KWIKR 1]

I cut open each one and they look identical inside. Both have the wire ring inside the fire ring. I took a few measurements and they seem to match. I did notice that the newer gasket has a "slicker" feel to it. I'm guessing whatever they changed is in the composition of the coating over the steel core,

I just installed a set of 9441's and they had a "sticky" feeling to them rather then a being "slick".

 

[turbofabricator]

If they have the wire ring, then they are the right ones. If it failed, then I would look elsewhere. Tune-up, flatness, oil in combustion chamber (causes bad detonation) fuel system, weak head bolts, bad torque wrench, crooked head bolt holes. (not real common, but there ARE blocks out there with crooked holes, I've seen four of them).............

 

[hrhoward]

I just installed a set of 9441's and they had a "sticky" feeling to them rather then a being "slick".

I just bought four of them from AutoZone, $22 each, and they were "slick".

 

[bison]

You can see the fire ring distortion in the gasket that didnt fail. If you measured the other cylinders that look ok with a dial caliper you would see a small amount of distortion there also. The distortion is from detonation. It takes a a lot of severe detonation to distort the fire ring like you did. You need to pull the boost back and get rid of all sources of detonation and creep up the boost slowly. Once you get really fast it will only take one instance of detonation and the gaskets will be shot.

 

[TurboDave]

I cut open each one and they look identical inside. Both have the wire ring inside the fire ring. I took a few measurements and they seem to match. I did notice that the newer gasket has a "slicker" feel to it. I'm guessing whatever they changed is in the composition of the coating over the steel core,

Were your heads resurfaced before this last set? Was your deck checked for flatness?

 

[Sleeper-6]

the heads were resurfaced before the first set, not the second set. I did check the surfaces before the install of the second gasket. Everything was clean and smooth. I did not check with a straight edge, but every thing is still apart so I will do that in the next few days and report back what I find. You can still see the cutter pattern on the heads and block.

As far a detonation, the set that didn't blow were on a mild tune. I don't recall exactly now, but a can say it was less than 20 psi, street timing, and plenty of fuel. I was still gun shy about blowing the last set so I was being very careful about not knocking this set. I'm pretty sure the fire rings are not round to start with so I will pick up a new gasket to compare them to and take measurements from.

If you look close you can see the imprint from the o-ring in the heads on the fire ring. I would think if the ring moved the imprint would not be so clean, it would show up distorted or something.

 

[19TTA89]

I have noticed this same problem...And also on a few friends cars also...We have eaten up Fel-Pro's last year at a ridiculous rate.

No tuning issues...especially not on 3 different good running cars..On most of our gaskets though...The gasket itself deteriorated,Leaving the fire ring in tact.But was blowing out under boost over 20 or so psi.

There is a definite problem with Fel pro 9441's now...No question about it.To the extent that if you look at Summit racing's website...The clearly list that the 9441's are not recommended for racing applications....Wonder why they would do that?They never listed that before.

Fel-Pro 9441PT - Fel-Pro Head Gaskets - summitracing.com

At one time the 9441 was the only gasket I would ever buy...Now you couldn't give me a set for free.

Also...All of our heads were not warped,Clean&prep for install was well done,new arp bolts or studs,Proper Tq setting and sequence...Still had problems...Changed to a different gasket...problem solved.

 

[79TurboCutlass]

What is the new head gasket of choice since the Fel pros have issues? GM head gaskets still good?

 

[TurboJoe3.8]

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