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Finally finished my boost bypass system. Works awesome!

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VadersV6

Active Member
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
2,559
When I first got the car, I was really surprised to find out that Buick hadnt put a bypass valve on the car. Just about every factory and even aftermarket turbo and supercharger system Ive seen was always equipped with a bypass valve to dump boost pressure when you slam the valve shut, which obviously protects the turbo from damage. God knows how much longer they can last with this. I had the goal of doing this a year and a half ago, but I was too busy with other things. Another cool thing about a bypass system, and NOT a blowoff valve, is that under high vacuum, while cruising, air is being completely bypassed around the turbo. Its basicaly running like an N/A motor...straight from the intake tube and into the throttle body. I still have yet to see if this improves mileage at all. Then when you get under boost, the valve is forced shut, and the turbo system seals and works like it should. Its basically like an on/off switch for the turbo. Another good thing is that there is nothing but metered air being circulated. So when you let off the trottle, you wont get any huge rich spike which causes stalling, hunting, etc.
Anyway, it works GREAT. In the process I also discovered I have a 62mm TB. Awesome! I always wanted to get one...always wondered why my engine was so strong at low throttle.
I used one of my Bosch 103 bypasses left over from when I made a dual bypass setup for my cobra when it had the blower. I used 110's on that system cause it has a brass ring inside vs. the plastic one in this, which is alot stronger and intended for higher boost. But I had it sitting around and wanted to put it to good use. One good thing about the 103 is that is has a much larger stroke. Something like 10mm vs. only 3 or 4 with the other ones. This means alot more air can be dumped when u shut the throttle, and its also open alot more while cruising, further enhancing the N/A like characteristics. I really need to get some pics of this system. Just need to find my USB/camera cable. What I did was, I got a 1" threaded steel pipe, about 2" long, drilled out the up-pipe, tapped it, and threaded in this tube..its basically a bung. Had to do it this way cause I have no welding equipment. Then I drilled a hole through the intake tube, drilled a smaller hole in a section of silicone tubing, slipped this silicone tubing over the intake tube, and clamped it on with 2 hose clamps to seal it. The dump side of the bypass squeezes into this hole and into the intake tube, and the pressure side of the bypass connects to the up-pipe bung with some heater hose...only about 3 inches worth (the whole system is very compact) The vacuum line runs to the furthest to the firewall steel tube that comes off the vacuum block, where it T's off to the MAP sensor. I used hard line cause the bypass vacuum/pressure signal needs to be strong and responsive.
Anyway, when I get under boost and rapidly pull out of the throttle, I hear a nice muffled dump of air going into the intake tube...not the loud obnoxious blast of a blowoff valve that ricers consider the sign of a fast car. The rpm's immediately drop FAST down to idle speed, and there is no drop below idle rpm's, no stalling, no hunting, nothing. Its just like an N/A car, and that stupid fluttering sound is GONE...you know, the sound of an impellar being slammed into the bearings like a hammer and the accompanying flutter. I imagine a turbo could last 10 times longer with this. Should be considered mandatory when some people spend big bucks on one. By the way, I didnt have to change the tune at all. I pulled the orange ECM wire cause I figured Id probably have tune issues, but when I was done, I had all the exact same settings on the extender as before. Its also running is closed loop at idle like it shoud...actually that is the one change. I had it running with open loop idle cause idle sucked. But the bypass system seemed to help that, and I noticed the engines starts alot quicker now too.
 
LIke to see a pic of this, but at cruise the turbo increases mileage by increasing efficiency into the motor, so i can't seeing you increase mileage that way.
 
Not sure about that. Given the small amount of air being used during cruise, it seems that the turbo may be a restriction. If you look at a compressor map, youll see that at cruise, because of the amount of boost/airflow (no boost, low airflow) and the pressure ratio (off the map), you're WAY out of the efficiency range. You're actually way far left of the surge limit. Under boost and load, the turbo is using otherwise wasted exhaust energy to drastically improve the efficiency of the motor, yes. But cruising? Nope. Think about how the compressor is spinning at cruise, trying to push air through with a mostly closed throttle blade. I would think there is a small parasitic loss there. Regardless of whether or not Im right or wrong about that, this isnt about mpg anyway. Its about saving turbos. Im really happy with how it came out. I spent alot of time on the cobra's bypass setup (went through several configurations) trying to get a surging/bucking problem under control during cruise, and discovered alot of things in the process...what works and what wont. It obviously is working right cause I have no hunting, surging, bucking etc and didnt have to change the tune whatsoever. And that issue with the fluttering and how long it takes for the air to bleed out of the system, making it take so much longer to return to idle and banging the impellar shaft around...glad thats gone. Just a nice "poosh" and the rpm's immediately drop to idle as fast as any N/A engine.
Who's the dick that always throws up 1 star on people's threads? Like your opinion is worth ****. Dont like to see people trying new things? Buy a Civic and go back to playing doom on your dad's computer.
 
I don't know how long you expect your turbo to last, but stockers with no BOV OR BPV have lasted well past the 100,000 mile mark.

Also, you don't want to bypass a turbo compressor like you would a blower. I would also think this might cause some lag building boost.
 
turbosam6 said:
I don't know how long you expect your turbo to last, but stockers with no BOV OR BPV have lasted well past the 100,000 mile mark.

Also, you don't want to bypass a turbo compressor like you would a blower. I would also think this might cause some lag building boost.
First off, why not? Just about every factory installed turbo system has a bypass system set up this way.....the same way as done on centrifugal blower systems. Why would you assume right off the bat that its different? Must be that you want it that way.
As for lasting over 100,000 miles, there are flat tappet cams that last that long as well, so the idea of a roller cam would be stupid. Better hurry and take them all off the market.
By the way, I have no lag worse than before. Spoolup is improved. If you understand how a bypass works, you'll see there is no reason whatsoever to think it would spool slower.
There always seems to be a hostile response to everything new here. Its really ****ing bizarre.
 
OK, do your mileage test and prove me wrong. I don;t think it will do anything on gas mileage, thats my opinion, if it helps turbo life thats a plus. Do not insult me with the civic crap, i drive a 10 sec pump gas, 21 mpg buick...... :eek:
 
Please enlighten me the difference between a blow off valve and a bypass valve? I thought they were 1 in the same just different naming of the 2.

I was just about to install a DSM BOV in my buick this week or so but have been hesitating on the recirculating of the air after the maf. Can these cars still run if it is vented to atmosphere? I am still using the stock MAF and plan to keep it.

BTW I got 90k miles out of my stock turbo, but it sure is beat to death.
 
A BOV (commonly used on turbo cars) just releases pressure from the intake system when the throttle is slammed shut after a run with boost, mainly to prevent excess wear on the turbo. Buicks don't have one because with an automatic transmission this isn't happening nearly as often as with a manual, and most turbo cars nowadays are manuals. A BPV is more commonly used on blower cars, it stays open to keep pressure (and heat) from building in the system while the blower is spinning but the throttle isn't open very far. It bypasses the air back into the system so the maf isn't confused. The reason turbo cars don't use BPV's is because unlike a blower, your turbo isn't making any boost while cruising at a steady rpm. Turbo's are driven off exhaust gases and heat, blowers are driven by rpm. You can be driving a turbo car at a steady 3000 rpm and the compressor isn't spinning fast enough to build boost because there isn't much in the way of exhaust pressure or heat with the throttle only slightly opened. A blower car, on the other hand, is building some pressure at 3000 rpm and that needs to be relieved.

Again, not slamming your idea here, just questioning whether it'll actually do anything for you. No need to be on the defensive, and like norbs, I own a very powerful vehicle and have owned several more, the GN I had is owned by another board member now and he will attest to the quality of what I did. My current car makes very respectable power and is very well engineered. We aren't just talking to placate our own ego's, we might actually know a thing or two about this stuff......
 
Thanks for the reply if it was for me anyway.

I am not knew by any means to forced induction. I have owned my GN for 6 years now and have had at least 9 other turbo cars including my 95 Talon, which makes very good power. The GN is my first auto though and I just put in a new turbo and figured I had the spare DSM BOV kicking around so I would try it.

My concern was with venting to atmosphere if it would mess with the excess fuel since it has allready been metered air and now it is going to be discharged basically. I just came up with an idea to recirculate it though, I may just do that instead.
 
Dennis, when you lift off the gas the stock ecm either cuts the fuel way down or turns it off completely until the engine rpms get close to idle, depending on how fast and far you lift. Saves fuel and emissions. That means that even if the maf gets confused it will still be okay most of the time. Plumbing a bov back into the turbo inlet doesn't vent metered air and helps respool the turbo if you get right back on it. I don't think anyone will say that a bpv or bov will hurt anything, it is just that for some reason most Buick owners don't think they are necessary. I know one racer with an 8 second car who added a bov and says that he stopped needing to rebuild the turbo every season or sooner. Vader, I hope you post some pics, it sounds like nice install.
 
Stock turbo on my 84 svo is still kickin at 120k miles, and it's a 5 speed manual with no bov/bpv
 
The turbo is not doing anything at cruise, so looking at the compressor map won't tell you much. (notice how the curves stop at the bottom, when the pressure ratio gets below about 1.2?) Flow at cruise is so small that the turbo is just "spinning in the breeze", it isn't doing any compressing. And there are and have been a number of turbo cars without a sneeze valve, or a bypass. In general, the designers put them on cars that need them, and leave them off those cars that don't. The Buicks fall into the second category. Many stock turbos have gone well over 100,000 miles. Mine is approaching 200,000. Unless the blow off valve is FREE, it won't provide much in the way of cost/benefit. Now bigger turbos, especially those with the small shaft, may benefit from a blow-off valve. Even there, though, it's hard to prove.
 
Half you guys on here would argue if I was trying to give you a bucket of water and you were on fire. While on fire and your skin is melting off, you would try and reason away that people on fire have been put out with different things which are better fire extinguishers than water, so you would rather wait till someone comes by with something better, or since there are people who have survived without putting the fire out, I need to prove that putting the fire out would give you longer life expectancy over not putting the fire out before you would reluctantly accept the water.
Norbs-You made it pretty clear with the civic comment that you're the gem who throws up 1 star on everyone's threads. Good job. Between your priceless opinions on performance and the fact youve thrown big money at a car and run 10's, john force better get out of the way. You could start a consulting firm and make big bucks by giving everyone the real dirt on performance since evryone is lost without you.
Ive put about 120 miles on the car since installing this, and Im still very happy. Given its an auto car, yeah maybe its not necessary, but if you can improve on something, WHY NOT? Why do you guys fight everything, including things that are beneficial?
Dennis- you said this:"I just came up with an idea to recirculate it though, I may just do that instead."
You did?
Blowoff valves have so much spring load that they usually only pop open during throttle closing. A bypass valve, or cutoff valve, or sneeze valve, of huffer valve (they have a million names), is designed to bypass air, not just blow it off. I tried using a Greddy BOV as a bypass before and it didnt work that great.
Another thing Norbs- I said this isnt about mpg, yet you keep going on with it. If a turbo can last longer (I hear alot about stock turbos lasting a long time, but havent heard about bigger aftermarket ones lasting over 100k), then why not do it? [hillbilly voice] If'er aint broke, why fix'um?[/hillbilly voice]
 
VadersV6 said:
Dennis- you said this:"I just came up with an idea to recirculate it though, I may just do that instead."
You did?

Yes I did. I am sure it has been done before, but not from what I have seen on a TR. I have a 6152 with 200 miles on it and I don't want it go bad from lack of a BOV.

I also have a DSM whichs came from the factory with a BOV, I have a spare, a welder and a few minutes and came up with a way to recirculate the valve.

Now, my DSM can not be vented to atmosphere, it will run like ****, back fire, pop whatever you want to call it. this is the sole reason behind my question. My wideband would go to 9.0-1 immediatly.

I have never heard the term, BPV before and wanted to know what it was, that is all. I am not attacking anyone here.

When I am done with my idea I will post up some pics. I am sure someone will say they allready did that, but being a new guy here and a bunk search engine I can't get to much info.
 
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