Fresh motor?.....

[FJM568]

Vapors or smoke out of the valve cover breathers generally means either a blown head gasket(which shouldn't be the case on a fresh rebuild and not getting into boost yet) or blowby past the rings(which probably aren't seated)...The other one is cracked pistons or holed pistons(which also isn't the case on a fresh motor that hasn't been driven hard)...

If you have the equipment to do it, run a leakdown test on the cylinders and see what kind of readings you are getting...A normal compression test may show good numbers on cranking compression, but a leakdown test will give a better indication of how well the rings are seated(or aren't, in this case)...


I'm getting ready to put my motor together for my 87 T and basically have done the same as you...BUT, I am replacing some unknown brand replacement +.030 cast pistons with TRW/SpeedPro forged, a re-honeeek: ), a turbo crank to replace the NA crank that was in there, and decked the block(because of a blown NA head gasket that was put on instead of the correct turbo motor head gaskets, didn't want to take a chance on the new gaskets not sealing in the area where the NA gaskets blew and I had no idea how many miles I had on it with the fire ring around the cylinders melting out...Hopefully, I won't have too many blowby problems now(I did have some with the motor before the head gasket completely blew out between cyls #1 and #3)...I had some oil dripping from the valve cover breather for some time before the motor came out of the car...


Good luck and let us know what you find out...

 

[turboculosis]

I went ahead and removed the PCV valve and check valve totally,and installed a pcv valve from my father's GN.(without check valve)into place.The smoke from the breathers stopped.But it still smoked from the tailpipe.I was wondering why that check valve there.It was not there when I dropped it off at Fred's.After talking to Fred on the situation he had told me he had put it there to see if it stop smoking.He figured the oil was splashing and getting sucked up the intake valley and into the pcv due to the intake gasket not being a stock type that he had used.He used a 2 piece set w/out the pan because this was the only type of set that matched the intake ports.So the question on why the car was still smoking came up.He then stated with only 100 miles,the rings haven't seated yet and to put more miles on it and the smoke should go away.And if it didn't at least the assumption that rings not seating yet would be eliminated.So I took his word for it.And that is what I'm doing at this point.He also said that If it turns out to be a bad motor,he would tear it apart and fix the problem at no charge.So what do you guys think?Is it the intake gasket?not enough miles?Or am I being taken for a long ride?
Thanks for your time.This is probably the longest I've ever yapped with the keyboard.......

 

[FJM568]

I would get it in writing that he would fix the problem at no charge to you if it turns out to be a bad motor...CYA!!! As for the intake gasket, most people that use the 2 piece intake gasket w/o the valley pan end up cutting up a stock valley pan to drop in place to keep the pcv valve from sucking oil into the intake...

Remember, CYA...get it in writing that he is aware there may be a problem now while still under warranty and that if it doesn't clear up in time that he will fix it at no cost to you...That way, if you come back later after the warranty is expired, you have it on paper that he WILL fix it...

 

[Joe 1320]

Originally posted by FJM568


Remember, CYA...get it in writing that he is aware there may be a problem now while still under warranty and that if it doesn't clear up in time that he will fix it at no cost to you...That way, if you come back later after the warranty is expired, you have it on paper that he WILL fix it...

Amen...... Too many times I've heard " the rings haven't seated yet..... put some more miles on it" Then you're screwed because they don't want to do it over. If they do tear into it, they "find"something else that wasn't part of the original deal so they can charge you something to cover their costs.

 

[turboculosis]

Thanks for the heads up.I will definitely CMA on this situation.

 

[turboculosis]

OK,I've got about 300 miles on the car now.The smoke is barely noticeable at this point.You really gotta look close,it's definitely way less smoke than before.I've been keeping off the boost.0 vaccum at the most with no smoke noticed(at least from the side mirrors).Is this a good sign?Let's say the smoke totally disappears,how far can I push it?My main plan was to get some track time this year.With a "rehone",is it advisable to do so?
Thanks,
Alan

 

[StagedGN]

Hi,IMHO you have enough miles on it to see some boost.I would set your WG to about 15 lbs.After seeing some boost the rings will or should seat.After you have a total of 500 miles on it go racing!Rering jobs are done all the time I would'nt worry about it.

 

[QuickWE4]

FWIW, it took about 600 miles for the rings to seat in the fresh 396 in our 70 Chevelle SS. It smoked too.

I know, Chevy-Buick, apples and oranges, but I always thought this was normal.

Rich

 

[GNandGS]

About non stock intake gaskets.... I prefer to use an old stocker cut to fit:

http://mcbain.tzo.com/gwtra/images/tech/intake/intake.htm

S

 

[dgreene]

OK,I've got about 300 miles on the car now.The smoke is barely noticeable at this point.

I agree with StagedGN, it's time to start getting into it some. Like he said, turn down the boost to 15 PSI or less and get into it a little from time to time. I'm glad to see that it's finally clearing up some. By the time you get a few hundred more on it, you should be good to go.

 

[turboculosis]

Thanks alot guys

 

[Steve Wood]

Don't know what the machinest did...but only a ball hone should be used on a block with taper in the cylinders. A blade hone will screw it up worse than no hone. A ball hone should not fold the metal over like a blade hone either. I would have been tempted to put fresh rings and not have even touched the cylinders if it was not to be bored. But then, I always wanta be different.

 

[Raist103]

just my 2 cents

I went through 3 motors before I stopped going to Fred, Great guy but in my opinion he is more "business" minded. Such as don’t worry it will get better; knowing it will not and that is another visit ($$$). Anyway just my 2cts I like Fred just not as a business man I think he cares more for cash than people.

 

[xlr8ngn]

What kind of rings did he use? It sounds like to me he may have used moly rings and made the hone finish too rough. If it is too rough, the moly rings are too slick and do not wear the cylinder wall or seat properly. The cylinder wall will trap oil and not let the ring scrape it off. Also, if the hone was really rough, it can take the moly off of the ring. A leakdown test will typically let you know. I have seen some hone jobs that look like they used a brick.

 

[turbo]

Raist 103 said it all! Have him tear it down before it's too late. Better yet, get all or some of your money back and go to one of the good places around that won't HOSE you.

 

[turboculosis]

The 400 mile mark

I drove the car yesterday and took the advice in getting into some boost.I had the wastegate set at #15 psi and no more.As I hit 15lbs of boost in 3rd she really felt good.No knock egt's were at 1490.As far as smoking, I saw none at least from the side mirror and turning back to look out the rear window kinda scary.Anyways, I pulled in the driveway and let her idle a while.In watching the tail pipe there is still that light puffing of blueish white smoke.Is it obvious that it's the intake gasket(2 piece w/no pan) or otherwise?

 

[GNandGS]

Obvious? How 'bout possible.

Gasket is around $20 (you can use an old used one for free) plus whatever the 1200's cost now. This is certainly something you can do on a Saturday. Would give you a chance to look over the cam too... your guy should put in the "baffle" from an old gasket for free IMO as it should have been done in the first place.

Before all that though, you might look through the TB and look for oil or pull the vac line from the pcv near the TB and look for oil.

S

 

[turboculosis]

bad news

I moved the car out of the garage today.I again let it idle for some time in the driveway.In doing so, the smoke started again lightly but this time it got worse and worse as it idled longer.I smoked up the whole driveway.This is definitely not normal.I gotta admit it.I came to a decision not to bring it back to Fred.Even though he said that he'd tear the motor apart again for free.I've learned my lesson and I hope none of you go through this.Anyway,I was wondering how and where I would go from here.My block is bored @.040.Will going .060 have any restrictions to my setup?Is a new block the way to go?........Just wondering,how much would a shortblock cost to build similar to what I have?$6-7000????This truly sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Joe 1320]

Sorry to hear this, but I was worried about this from your first post. IMHO, I would still take it back to him. I feel the real problem goes back to the hone and ring job. Too many times excessive piston to wall clearance is band aided by new rings. It does work for example when you have a low mileage (or low miles since an overbore) and you freshen it up due to having to open the motor up for repairs. I am also not a fan of going past .030 in these motors. You are already at .040.. While there are plenty of examples of people going .040 and even .060, the material in the block gets thinner and thinner, disortion starts to occur with higher heat and pressures. While I've gone .060 over in some NA motors like a BBC with good sucess, I don't feel it is a safe investment in a forced induction motor like our V6. FYI, go to the parts section. John Decarlo has a stock bore 109 block and main caps for sale...cheap! If the original shop now recommends an overbore, I feel you would be better off with another block. At least he should cut you some serious slck on additional labor as they didn't really do the right thing in the first place. Just my humble opinion though.

BTW, you should be able to duplicate your shortblock for $3500 to $4000.

 

[turboculosis]

Thanx to all!!!!!

Although the situation turned out to be a sour one .This is definitely a "bigtime" learning experience for me.Thank you guys for the replies and advice.I really appreciate em'.As for the motor,it's done with.I'm going with a shortblock from Ron's Auto.I told Paul my situation and offered to help me out with much understanding.I'll be going with one of their .020 forged pistoned,billet capped,and girdled shortblocks.I should've done this the first time.I guess that's what you get when you go the cheaper route,at least for me.I truly believe a rehone job will work for some but not all motors.I don't want to send any type of negative vibes about Fred and Dynotech.He offered the cheaper route and I went for it.It ended up not working and the only person to blame was me. I'll let you guys know how everything worked out...
-Alan