Fuel system for 800hp

[turboclam]

Do I need to run a controller with the Weldon? So from the tank I can run -8 to a -6 AFPR and duel feed the Champion rails with -6? Is that enough? Thanks!

 

[TTipe]

Mike, you spent a ton of $$$$ on your engine, and you are going to trust any in-tank stock fuel pump, or even 2 of them to perform and be reliable at 800 HP?

Do it right the first time, and install a 1000 HP system and never look back as you will have a good safety margin, and it will be very reliable.

How many times have you seen one of the double pumps fail at the wrong time with disastrous results? Not many, because people do not post their mistakes, but I have seen it happen many times.

Make sure it is done RIGHT the first time, which will cost very little more, and even less, if the first system does not perform to your expectations.

People want a a "warp driven star ship" fueled with a rickshaw fuel system. The fuel sytem is insurance on your investment.

 

[The Radius Kid]

People want a a "warp driven star ship" fueled with a rickshaw fuel system. The fuel sytem is insurance on your investment.

I'll agree with that.
The problem is that the system was designed for a street driven 250 Hp car.
Overcoming the inherent restrictions in the system is tough to do,the biggest restrictions being in the lines that run up the front of the engine to the fuel rails on the engine.

 

[Ttype6]

Overcoming the inherent restrictions in the system is tough to do,the biggest restrictions being in the lines that run up the front of the engine to the fuel rails on the engine.

The biggest restriction in the feed line is the fuel filter,not the line.
The same fuel filter that Red Armstrong uses along with the stock unmodified feed and return lines that feed his 1,000 hp motor running on gasoline.
His 1,000 hp system is done "the wrong way" and continues to do the job. Imagine what the right way would do.
The same thing. It would just cost a lot more.
The return line isn't restrictive at all if you don't send 700 hp worth of fuel to the motor while it is idling.
There is never a need to modify or replace the return line.

 

[The Radius Kid]

The biggest restriction in the feed line is the fuel filter,not the line.
The same fuel filter that Red Armstrong uses along with the stock unmodified feed and return lines that feed his 1,000 hp motor running on gasoline.
His 1,000 hp system is done "the wrong way" and continues to do the job. Imagine what the right way would do.
The same thing. It would just cost a lot more.
The return line isn't restrictive at all if you don't send 700 hp worth of fuel to the motor while it is idling.
There is never a need to modify or replace the return line.

Wrong.
The biggest restriction is the section of lines that run up the front of the engine from the frame to the injector rail.
There's more restriction in that section of line than the rest of the system from the tank to front of the fame rail,as per Jack at Racetronix.
He flowed the system a few years back.
As for the return line,it's only a problem if the it can't control the fuel pressure at lower issued pulse widths.

 

[Mike E]

Do I need to run a controller with the Weldon? So from the tank I can run -8 to a -6 AFPR and duel feed the Champion rails with -6? Is that enough? Thanks!

The 1100a pump does not need a controller. The regulator goes after the fuel rails. I would run bigger lines than a -8 feed and -6 return. If your buying new, the price difference is very little.

 

[Ttype6]

There's more restriction in that section of line than the rest of the system from the tank to front of the fame rail,as per Jack at Racetronix.

Ok,this huge restriction is in my car and Red Armstrong's 1,000 hp fuel system. Guess how much fuel Red is able to run through this restrictive line. 1,000 hp worth. I run the equivalent of 920hp on gasoline through this same restrictor. How much power are you producing? If it's less than 1,000.you don't need to replace or modify this line.

 

[The Radius Kid]

Ok,this huge restriction is in my car and Red Armstrong's 1,000 hp fuel system. Guess how much fuel Red is able to run through this restrictive line. 1,000 hp worth. I run the equivalent of 920hp on gasoline through this same restrictor. How much power are you producing? If it's less than 1,000.you don't need to replace or modify this line.

All B/S aside,the comment you made was that the biggest restriction on the feed of the system was the fuel filter.
I won't deny it's a restriction,but it doesn't appear to be the largest.
I will also say that I don't care how much H/P someone's making.
It doesn't impress me in the least.

 

[Mike E]

Ok,this huge restriction is in my car and Red Armstrong's 1,000 hp fuel system. Guess how much fuel Red is able to run through this restrictive line. 1,000 hp worth. I run the equivalent of 920hp on gasoline through this same restrictor. How much power are you producing? If it's less than 1,000.you don't need to replace or modify this line.

Is saving $200 in fuel line worth risking a $15k stage 2 motor that has unreplaceable parts? I'm sure its possible, but is that the place to save money?

 

[Ttype6]

All B/S aside,the comment you made was that the biggest restriction on the feed of the system was the fuel filter..

It is,but that's not important. The thing that you cant deny is that the stock fuel line supports 1,000. Many on this site think it's risky to feed a 500 hp motor this way and cause people to spend money on things that are unnecessary.

 

[Ttype6]

Is saving $200 in fuel line worth risking a $15k stage 2 motor that has unreplaceable parts? I'm sure its possible, but is that the place to save money?

I doesn't matter what kind of motor or how much money was spent on it. The OP wants a system to support 800 hp. He's going to waste a lot of money dispite the facts. Hopefully someone else who reads this won't.

 

[Nick Micale]

............ He's going to waste a lot of money dispite the facts. Hopefully someone else who reads this won't.

Hopefully someone reading this will NOT believe all your BS.

WOW, you have established yourself as the "resident fuel system" expert, or are you actually Red Armstrong, or his alter ego?

How many 8, 9 and 10 sec. GN's have you actually built and have the experience to back it up?

Like I said before, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you have no opinions, only un-substantiated facts that you present.

I have know Red for many years, and he never "pushed" his double pumper set up as the ultimate cure for a GN fuel system, but you want us to believe you know more about these cars than he does?

 

[Ttype6]

Hopefully someone reading this will NOT believe all your BS.

Please quote something I said with a detailed description of why it isn't true. This will be helpful to anyone who might read this.

 

[Ttype6]

How many 8, 9 and 10 sec. GN's have you actually built and have the experience to back it up?

Why do you put 700hp fuel pumps in stock Buicks?

 

[turboclam]

I feel like a retard, so the feed line goes straight to the passenger side and the return goes the to AFPR?

 

[Mike E]

I feel like a retard, so the feed line goes straight to the passenger side and the return goes the to AFPR?

What fuel rails are you running? I assume you have a champion intake and billet rails of some sort.

If you running a remote mounted regulator its best to y the incoming fuel into each rail and come out of both rails to each side of the regulator. Then out of the bottom of the regulator is the return.

Or you can go in the passenger rail, hook the two rails together, then out the drivers rail to one side of the regulator. Return out the bottom of the regulator.


If your running the rails that use a stock style regulator. In the passenger, loop the two together in the back, then out the bottom of the regulator with the return. Or, you can dual feed the rails in the front of each, loop the rear and out the bottom of the regulator.

 

[GetOwnedVette]

There are a ton of ways to run your fuel setup but I must agree with the overall voice, especially with a $$$ Stage II motor. It's mind easing insurance to just go big the 1st time. I ran whats in my sig for a silly little 109 Spent 1/4 the ammt of $$ on my fuel system as I did for my entire longblock lol

 

[TurboTnZ06]

It's basic physics, of flow and pressure. A stock feed line at 70 psi has a certain volume it can support when all the injectors open up. Could #1 cylinder go lean from a stock line setup when the pressure drops? The stock fuel rail is massive inside (bigger than a Champion rail IIRC). Trying to keep the volume in the rail at a certain pressure requires an adequate supply. I know cars that have blown #1 cylinder when it went lean with a single feed. #1 is last in line to get fuel. One way to keep an eye on things is to datalog with an electric FP sensor always.

The plus side to running your own fuel system is those 25 yr old stock fuel line fittings won't be all rounded off, won't have missing/torn o-rings and generally make it hard to get the lines on and off at the stock filter, rail and regulator.

The Aeroquip TFE line is also much thinner than regular braided rubber hose to make it easier to snake around. More money, but it's got compression fittings that can withstand giant amounts of pressure and are very easy to put together compared to rubber, although the name brand fittings are like $30 each.

Again, before ordering anything, read up on the differences between JIC, SAE and AN fittings and also there are AN with Oring fittings as well and not the angled kind. Also look to see if the pump, regulator and filters you get are Oring or not (mine used AN Oring).

If you have aftermarket rails, dual feed the fronts and then Y the back together for a single line to a single return on the FP regulator. A stock rail can be modified to be fed from both the fronts and then weld on a singe return fitting 45* down at the back to go under the coil pack. (I'm going to dual feed my stock rail next time I have the engine out).

 

[turboclam]

Thanks for the info!

 

[TurboBuRick]

Just adding my o2.

The stock lines will support allot more than most think. The pumps are usually the weak link in the system.

For a cost effective solution run a weldon 1100 through -8 to the rail and use the old stock feed as the return.