fwd roller and non roller cam parts in gn motor w/pictures

[black owned]

When you switch to a roller cam..... the lobes themselves have no taper like a hyd flat tappet cam.... therefore there is nothing to keep the cam from moving fore and aft inside the engine...... which some refer to "cam walk". One of the more popular ways to stop the cam from walking on our motors.... is to make the cam button where you can shim it to force the cam to stay against the thrust surface on the block.

Since each block is different...... and each timing cover is different.... you must have some adjustability in the cam button to adjust the shims so you can set the cam end play just right.

I am sure there is multiple vendors that carry the shimmable roller cam button...... one vendor I have used is Mike at FullThrottle. They are top notch. Give them a call.... they will hook you up...

thanks,so basically a budget lifter set up,new cam and springs and push rods,and a rollercam button?and im in bussines correct?

 

[Blazer406]

thanks,so basically a budget lifter set up,new cam and springs and push rods,and a rollercam button?and im in bussines correct?

Seems like you have it covered.

I would recommend waiting on pushrods until you get it mocked up completely with the block, heads, lifters, camshaft, valves, etc.... that you plan to use..... because you will want to get your pushrod length spot on......

 

[dr_frankenstein]

OK
i can do them the same way 87buickracer did his.
thanks for the reply

Do you or anyone else know if this can be done to an 84-85 Block???

this cannot be done to an earlier block, must be a service block or a 109.

needs the closed lifter galley.

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

this cannot be done to an earlier block, must be a service block or a 109.

needs the closed lifter galley.

A.j.

I kinda agree here. It could be done but the work to make it work would be much harder.

 

[dr_frankenstein]

I kinda agree here. It could be done but the work to make it work would be much harder.

well.... where else would you bolt the spider too?

lol

A.j.

 

[charlief1]

well.... where else would you bolt the spider too?

lol

A.j.

You'd have to make a custom spider Aj.:biggrin: It would be a PITA to say the least.:frown:

 

[joe_schindler]

well.... where else would you bolt the spider too?

lol

A.j.

I haven’t measured anything; but have wondered if you could load a spider like you do a lifter in a rev-kit? That is; could you place a couple of large valve springs on top of the spider so that the intake pushed it down? It would take a whole ‘nother level of engineering that would probably make aftermarket roller lifters look like a bargain.

I won't be trying it soon though.

Have fun,

Joe

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

i guess drilling into one of these ribs or the center section is not a good idea.
any one have an extra spider the want to sell/send me for mock up???
i'll take picture and post them up

 

[Blazer406]

I really don't think it would be that big of a deal if you were doing this with the naked block.... out of the car..... I had thought about making some stand-off's that look similar to the stand-offs that are made into the factory hyd roller blocks of the late '80's ...... you could just weld them down to the floor of the lifter valley..... the weld doesn't have to be that big..... it is under near 0 load....just there to keep it from moving around......

Think out-of-the-box...... you could put a piece of flat bar cut to fit right down the middle of the lifter valley that went fron the front wall to the rear wall.... right in the middle.... just off the floor of the lifter valley....say 1/4" x 1" flat bar..... probably would need 12" - 14"....... just a small weld on the front and the back....worst case is you have to put a couple ears welded on the flat bar to get support where the original holes are on the spider......... then drill and tap the flat bar and bolt the spider to it....

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill......just get in there and try it.....don't be scared......

 

[dr_frankenstein]

well its not that we cant....

its the point.

are you really saving anything at that point after all the work?

might as well buy a roller kit.

its not "worth" the time to fit the spider into the early block, which is something feasable on a 109 with out any major hurdles. which is why this mod was so fantastic. I dont think alot of people have the confidence to weld on there own engine. I mean consider the amount of people who ask on a weekly basis how to drill a turbo drain hole...... and you want to ask them to install a spider system in an early block? might be pushing it.....


A.j.

 

[Blazer406]

well its not that we cant....

its the point.

are you really saving anything at that point after all the work?

might as well buy a roller kit.

its not "worth" the time to fit the spider into the early block, which is something feasable on a 109 with out any major hurdles. which is why this mod was so fantastic. I dont think alot of people have the confidence to weld on there own engine. I mean consider the amount of people who ask on a weekly basis how to drill a turbo drain hole...... and you want to ask them to install a spider system in an early block? might be pushing it.....


A.j.

Point taken.... I was just saying where there is a will.... there is a way......

My example would definately take the conversion to another skill level.....

In my case.... I was sucked in to the cheapness of the conversion...... and with all the bad publicity the "noisey" aftermarket hyd roller lifters are getting......... maybe I could install one of these setups that would be more quiet (than aftermarket)..... and save a few bucks to boot.

I did it.... then pulled it out when I was having oil pressure issues.... only to confirm what I already had thought.... that the poor-boy conversion wasn't hurting my oil pressure at all...... because I tried it both ways.... aftermarket.... and poor-boy conversion.....

At the end of the day..... the difference in the cost of the lifters is about all you can realistically hope to save......

FWIW... I plan on running this setup on my motor I am about to build.....

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Point taken.... I was just saying where there is a will.... there is a way......

My example would definately take the conversion to another skill level.....

In my case.... I was sucked in to the cheapness of the conversion...... and with all the bad publicity the "noisey" aftermarket hyd roller lifters are getting......... maybe I could install one of these setups that would be more quiet (than aftermarket)..... and save a few bucks to boot.

I did it.... then pulled it out when I was having oil pressure issues.... only to confirm what I already had thought.... that the poor-boy conversion wasn't hurting my oil pressure at all...... because I tried it both ways.... aftermarket.... and poor-boy conversion.....

At the end of the day..... the difference in the cost of the lifters is about all you can realistically hope to save......

FWIW... I plan on running this setup on my motor I am about to build.....

I think the setup is genius, and I would love to personally outfit one of my cars with this system. I like the way it all works, and its dirt simple really. Add the robustness of stock GM parts, and I think we have a winner.

I had high hopes for your motor as well, shame that oil pressure had been lousy... we needed a solid guinea pig (no offense) to prove it would work. and seeing what I saw on your engine was convincing enough for me.

Though, I still die hard the flat tappets.... I look forward to trying the roller.

Keep up the awesome Engineering, your an inspiration to alot of us.

A.j.

 

[Blazer406]

I think the setup is genius, and I would love to personally outfit one of my cars with this system. I like the way it all works, and its dirt simple really. Add the robustness of stock GM parts, and I think we have a winner.

I had high hopes for your motor as well, shame that oil pressure had been lousy... we needed a solid guinea pig (no offense) to prove it would work. and seeing what I saw on your engine was convincing enough for me.

Though, I still die hard the flat tappets.... I look forward to trying the roller.

Keep up the awesome Engineering, your an inspiration to alot of us.

A.j.

Thanks for the vote of confidence A.j. I need it right now. My (old) new motor has been pulled from the car and on the stand waiting for me to disassemble it for over 6 months......cause I have gotten discouraged.

Getting a little off topic...

I'm planning on doing another block. I've been thru the ringer with my current SG1 block.... to the point I am going to scrap over $500 in machine work and steel caps. I am fairly convinced I have a cam bearing issue since I spun my cam bearing. I am going to buildup another block and re-try this conversion. My delima now is do I re-do all the caps/line bore etc..... or just buildup a stock shortblock and put my current cam and top end on it......and enjoy my car....possibly down into (no quicker) than the high 10's....... or do the bore/forged pistons/steel caps... line bore.... deck..... etc.... and have a setup comparable to the one I am scrapping? I would be looking for bottom 10's with this setup....

 

[dr_frankenstein]

Thanks for the vote of confidence A.j. I need it right now. My (old) new motor has been pulled from the car and on the stand waiting for me to disassemble it for over 6 months......cause I have gotten discouraged.

Getting a little off topic...

I'm planning on doing another block. I've been thru the ringer with my current SG1 block.... to the point I am going to scrap over $500 in machine work and steel caps. I am fairly convinced I have a cam bearing issue since I spun my cam bearing. I am going to buildup another block and re-try this conversion. My delima now is do I re-do all the caps/line bore etc..... or just buildup a stock shortblock and put my current cam and top end on it......and enjoy my car....possibly down into (no quicker) than the high 10's....... or do the bore/forged pistons/steel caps... line bore.... deck..... etc.... and have a setup comparable to the one I am scrapping? I would be looking for bottom 10's with this setup....

I guess it comes down to the old standard question, lmao........ how much you wanna spend? .... I would base your decision on when the last time you had fun with the car was.

I was in the same situation not too long ago... and I just ended up buying another truck. one that was a pile of just random stuff and cheap goodies, and the other was alll the billet and forged goodies.

one runs, and the other.. hopes to get there.

not that you can do that easily with GN's but I had to have fun in the meantime. and I think thats a mistake ALOT of us make, we get caught up in over building what we really never fully use... and wait 5 years to get there... just to continue to baby it, and complain about when it leaks or farts or is a flat pain. while the whole time the cheap-o budget builder was having a blast the entire time. its a dilemma. I know it. I think Buick was made in the same Factory as Women, and Both by the Devil.

:biggrin:A.j.

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Think out-of-the-box...... you could put a piece of flat bar cut to fit right down the middle of the lifter valley that went fron the front wall to the rear wall.... right in the middle.... just off the floor of the lifter valley....say 1/4" x 1" flat bar..... probably would need 12" - 14"....... just a small weld on the front and the back....worst case is you have to put a couple ears welded on the flat bar to get support where the original holes are on the spider......... then drill and tap the flat bar and bolt the spider to it....

I think you guys are making a mountain out of a molehill......just get in there and try it.....don't be scared......

i was thinking that same exact set up with the bar/plate across the block but not welded some how bolted to the walls

well its not that we cant....

its the point.

are you really saving anything at that point after all the work?

might as well buy a roller kit.

its not "worth" the time to fit the spider into the early block, which is something feasable on a 109 with out any major hurdles. which is why this mod was so fantastic. I dont think alot of people have the confidence to weld on there own engine. I mean consider the amount of people who ask on a weekly basis how to drill a turbo drain hole...... and you want to ask them to install a spider system in an early block? might be pushing it.....


A.j.

you are right, i wouldn't even think of welding it my self even if it saved me 4 hours of my own labor.

 

[charlief1]

i was thinking that same exact set up with the bar/plate across the block but not welded some how bolted to the walls

Kind of what I was thinking David. A long bar that runs from the front to the rear with T ends that are held in place with lock tighted bolts. Make it so you can add a bolt in the center to keep it from flexing and you should be ok.

 

[87buickracer]

up-date

Fwd roller lifter motor-
Engine is running great.up to 20lbs boost on 72 turbo.
Smoking the tires and pulling like a frieght train
Currently running dual progressive alcohol kits.
Also running rjc rocker arm braces after breakng two arms-no problems since..
will up grade to roller rockers in future
changing to ptc 3800 converter from art carr 3200 stall
changing rear control arms to boxed poly bushings
getting big sway bar and anti-roll kit
getting slicks for traction and will install moser axles and c-clip eliminators
I am totally pleased with the fwd roller lifter set-up and would recommend it to anyone who wants to save a little funds on roller kit..
As you can see I still have alot of up grading to do to car,but engine and tranny is performing flawless..and my engine girdle does not leak.. use the "right stuff" and you won't have any problems as long as you have a good machine shop...:biggrin:

 

[TurboBob]

sounds great,

How high do you rev that beast?

B

 

[87buickracer]

sounds great,

How high do you rev that beast?

B

So far up to 6k..will have to check my logs for anything more...
With the 218 billet roller I'm sure it will hit 6200...
Most of the time I have my eyes glued to the road once she starts going
sideways,also have to be on the look out for 5.0 on the street...lol
Once I get to the track I will be able to log more data..

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Any one have a spider, dog bones and lifters for this application that they want to sell?
OR
Are these parts available NEW from some where?
thanks