I am thinking of using a gear drive. It seems that there are not many turbo V-6 guys that run them. The only one i can think of is Tom Lorek who told me it worked flawless for him. Its seems all the V-8 guys use a gear drive or a Belt Drive. The only down side I can think of is noise. Has anyone used a gear drive? Is there a belt drive for a V-6 and what does it cost?
Gear Drive ??
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Lonnie,
You can use a gear drive.
The belt drive was a lot of money when I purchased it for my motor at Duttweiler's many years back. It is made by Danny Bee.
I think it is about $750
You can use a gear drive.
The belt drive was a lot of money when I purchased it for my motor at Duttweiler's many years back. It is made by Danny Bee.
I think it is about $750
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My old Ruggles stage 1 had gear drive. I did not care for the sound in my streetcar. I removed it when I changed cams and sold it. Ruggles used to make a lot of mods to a gear plate setup. He too stopped using them before he closed shop. I would degree the cam with a good tight roller chain and spend my money in other ways. They seem to be a lot of trouble for the results if any over a good chain. I guess they would never stretch.
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Lonnie, have a Milodon V-6 gear drive still in the package. Let me know if you are interested.
turbobitt
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Gear drive
I use a gear drive and love the rock steady timing . I also street drive the car and had no problems with it. Only recomendations would be to locktight the idler gear because IT WILL LOSEN. I think it is not really that noisy. My 3.5" exhaust drowns everything out and if you plan on using a solid roller , Valvetrain noise will be louder.
Allan Gorneault
I use a gear drive and love the rock steady timing . I also street drive the car and had no problems with it. Only recomendations would be to locktight the idler gear because IT WILL LOSEN. I think it is not really that noisy. My 3.5" exhaust drowns everything out and if you plan on using a solid roller , Valvetrain noise will be louder.
Allan Gorneault
Bob Mustic
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Gear Drive
I use a gear drive on my Stage II powered Cobra. Its works flawlessly with around 2,000 street miles and maybe 50 drag strip runs. My engine is normally aspirated and a 5 speed stick. Shift light comes on at 7,600 so RPM probably gets to around 8,000 during the power shift. Motor has been bullet proof (so far)
Bob
I use a gear drive on my Stage II powered Cobra. Its works flawlessly with around 2,000 street miles and maybe 50 drag strip runs. My engine is normally aspirated and a 5 speed stick. Shift light comes on at 7,600 so RPM probably gets to around 8,000 during the power shift. Motor has been bullet proof (so far)
Bob
EightSecV6
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Just wondering....how much HP are the guys using the gear drives making? I personally cant stand the noise, vibration/noise radiates throughout the valve train,takes more HP to drive than a chain,NO way to compensate for an engine that has been align bored and the list goes on....
Bill
Bill
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We are on the same page Bill --------noise, vibration/noise radiates throughout the valve train. It radiated into my bones. It does have a RACE engine sound, people thought a bad blower under the hood.
But I am same guy who likes a quiet deep exhaust.
How's your dad?
TurboDiverArt
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I have a belt drive on my motor too from Duttweiler (didn't know there was someone else out there on the board that had one too). I think they are a little more expensive complete. Remember you also need a different front cover as well as an external oil pump. Pump alone cost about $450 plus the custom brackets, Gilmer belts, belt cog drives, etc. I think the whole setup when all is said and done is going to cost you more like $2500 but that's just a guess, I don't have a breakdown of the costs.
If a gear drive can use the standard front cover and oiling system I think it’s going to be a lot cheaper although not nearly as quite and light weight as the belt drive.
TurboDiverArt
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Hey John,
On the subject of belt drives, have you found a source for a replacement belt? Mine has a Goodyear Super Torque 350S8M560 belt on it. I've tried a few sources. The one source that would actually sell to me and sold me replacement alternator and oil pump Gilmer belts said that the cam drive belt had been discontinued and they didn't know of a suitable replacement. I tried a few agricultural equipment suppliers but with no luck.
Just curious if you've found a replacement. I told Bobby at RPE to replace the belt but I’m not sure if he's going to be able to find a replacement one.
turbobitt
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My car is making aroung 800 HP, I can say from personal experience that the gear drive not very noisy at all. And it can compensate for align hone because the gear drive plate is made to move around and then tightened to achieve proper clearance. Try that with a chain. I have the highest confidence that after much street driving and many passes at the strip, My cam will be exactly where I installed it with no stretch in the system. A definite plus with large cams and tight valve to piston.
Allan Gorneault
Art, according to Goodyear's web site that belt is non-stock, made to order, and I bet there's a hefty minimum quantity, but I'd also bet that somewhere there's a distributor with a shelf full. Decoding the part number, 350S8M560, this is a 35 mm wide SuperTorque timing belt with 8 mm pitch and 560 mm circumference, which the catalog says has 70 teeth and fiberglass reinforcing. Equivalent belts are made by lots of other companies such as Gates, Dayco, etc. www.mcmaster.com lists their part number 6486K212 for $20.57 which is correct except it's only 30 mm wide and since I'm pretty sure they carry Gates belts it is most likely nylon reinforced. The next larger one they list is 50 mm wide. I'll check some catalogs tomorrow if I get a chance and try to find a better one for you, or just start checking your local power transmission (belts, gears, bearings, etc) industrial suppliers.
EightSecV6
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I personally have never had a quality roller chain break or retard after a full season more than 1 degree on engines making in excess of 1200 HP.
I have only pulled 2 Bush engines apart with gear drives in them and neither could be adjusted they way a SBC and BBC could, I was not aware of a manufactuer that made an adjustable plate for a Buick. I still prefer the chain for the HP,noise,harmonics,and vibration.
Bill
TurboDiverArt
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Carl,
Thanks as always for the great information. I assume Nylon stretches more than fiberglass? Having it 30mm wouldn't necessarily be bad. Could be because of belt walk or something but the crank sensor bore a little groove in the belt, now quite 5 mm in from the outer side but easily 2-3 mm. I'll have to talk to Bobby at RPE to see if he's had any luck. He builds lots of funky setups so he's probably got experience with these things.
Anybody got any contact information for Danny Bee, maybe he's got some available?
If you find any other replacements I'd really appreciate any information.
Thanks!
TurboDiverArt
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Thanks!
Art, I went through the Gates and Dayco catalogs and they both only offer 30 mm widths, which will run just fine on your 35+ mm pulleys. The nylon I was remembering is an outer coating for abrasion resistance. They both use fiberglass reinforcing internally, just like your Goodyear belt. If you need a belt now I'd order the Gates from mcmaster-carr. 35 mm vs 30 mm means the 30 mm belt would be rated at about 15% less horsepower transmission (about 12.5 hp vs. 14.4 hp under normal load conditions for your belt size) but I have no idea how overdesigned the belt drive is. I'm sure you check the belt regularly for stretch anyway.
TurboDiverArt
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OK, thanks for checking! I was sort of thinking that 30MM is probably OK. HP, it's only a V6 anyway...
I'll check with my engine builder to see what he things. My motor is certainly no where near the high HP motors he builds for others.
Thanks again,
Art.
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