gerotor front cover update

[quickt]

Lonnie- why wont those plates work-what needs to be done? i have a couple spare front covers.

They wont work for Phil because we use a wet sump. The pick-up is in the pan is external via -12 line and the feed is external. That plate just bypasses the factory filter housing. Still requires oil to be picked up threw the block and fed threw the block.

I think this cover is much less restrictive than the factory cover and could probably get the job done without the external oiling. My plan is to make a few of these covers in kit form. I have had no luck on buying the 3800 covers at the junk yards they will not separate from the engines.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Morad Parts Company in Cleveland. The Series II/III covers won't work without the plates and some sort of external oil feed into the block since they relocated the feed hole. The Series I stuff I think will work though but Ed Morad doesn't do Series I stuff. Also the Series II/III stuff runs off of a multi-keyway setup instead of the machined flats so you can take the lower bronze cam gear and machine the gear section off and run it as a spacer to drive the pump and machine down the back of the balancer to match your spacer thickness for pulley alignment.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Depending on what box my front cover stuff got put in for my moving experience I'll try to get pictures of the Series II/III cover and pump section next to the 3.8L RWD section to show the mismatch and the drive gear.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Well my stuff is up in my storage thing in Dayton, I won't be able to take pictures for awhile.

 

[49-blues]

Just saw some rebuilt covers series 1,2, & 3 on ebay-i ll try to find the link-they are overhauled like new.complete. Is the opion here that its better to use the 2 -3 series over the 1 series covers?

 

[CTX-SLPR]

From my observations, the Series I and FWD 3.8 covers use machined flats on the balancer to drive them are slightly less efficient, but the oil passages still line up and you can use the stock block oiling system. The Series II/III covers have a slightly better pump driven off of a multi keyway system that probably would have to be spacer driven but the oiling passages have been relocated so you'd have to get creative or use and external feed like a Duttwieler oiling system like I have.
I think for ya'll the Series I pump is the best combination since the Series II pump isn't enough better to warrant the hassle. I'm just so deep into this already with the Series II that I"m going to stick it out since my block is modified to never be able to use a stock cover oiling again with the external feed.

 

[49-blues]

Doesnt the duttweiller external pump utilize the cam gear to drive it?

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Yes.... but I'm not talking about the pump, I'm talking about the way the oil gets into the block with is through an external line that goes into the former oil sensor hole.

 

[49-blues]

Yes i know. I dont mind running an external feed line from the pan but i was trying not to use the cam gear if possible-i thought that was one of the major considerations for doing this mod.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

I'm not using the cam gear, I have a Series II gerotor pump feeding with the stock passage as recommended by Dan Stezo with an external oil feed into the block threw the old pressure sensor hole. I'm using that plate on the pump since I'm not sure I can even fit the narrow FWD Series II filter adapter between the motor and crossmember. Also since the Series II cover relocates the gallery feed passage I can't use that and have to route the oil back in some other way. The Duttwieler oiling system on a stock block doesn't have the drysump feed passage located just in front of the intake so you have to feed the oil system from elsewhere, hense the use of the oil sensor hole enlarged to 3/8" NPT. My 4.1L block is thinner or has core shift and broke through to water but Ohio George machined a threaded sleeve in the hole and now my block has to oil this way.

 

[Turbo1dr]

i thought that was one of the major considerations for doing this mod.

Yep, you're right. The other oiling system still uses the cam gears to drive the pump even though it has external feed and suction lines. So, it would still wear the gears out like a HV/HP stock pump does. The gerotor cover eliminates using the cam and cam sensor gears to drive the pump so no gears are wearing at all.

The covers from the 1986-1988 3.8L VIN3 are the ones I used.

I believe the Series 1 3800 1988-???? have the same covers as well but with a balance shaft added. Not 100% sure though.

The Series II and III engines are completely different as the oil feed passages to the block are relocated. The mounting bolts also won't line up with the RWD block.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

All but 1 of the bolt holes will line. The short bolt in the pump area on the stock cover has been relocated inboard. I've not checked what passage it goes through in the pump housing so I can't say if its machinable in the pump. I'm going to try omitting it and see if it will seal.

 

[Turbo1dr]

All but 1 of the bolt holes will line. The short bolt in the pump area on the stock cover has been relocated inboard. I've not checked what passage it goes through in the pump housing so I can't say if its machinable in the pump. I'm going to try omitting it and see if it will seal.

The rotors are also thinner in the newer covers so it's like a standard oil pump instead of a HV. I say this because the older rotors are thicker which moves more oil on each revolution. I think they purposfully designed it like that since the newer blocks have a better oiling system internally and don't require as much volume like the crappy older blocks.

 

[49-blues]

What year blocks have the newer series 1&2 pumps?

 

[CTX-SLPR]

Series II/III is mid 96-current 3800s. The Series I is mid 92-mid 96. Pre Series I is the Vin 3 motor with goofy crank centered pump like Kendall used. I believe Turbo1dr's is a Series I pump and I have a Series II/III pump.

 

[49-blues]

Thanks for your help.