gerotor front cover update

[Turbo1dr]

Its got me thinking also. I had some cam/dist gear problems to the point that it cost me a win in the finals. A dry sump in TSM is prohibited and an external wet sump would be hard to package running it off the single belt that drives everything else. (also per the rules). This cover/pump would solve my problems.
I have a couple of ?s I'm assuming the open end on the bottom left is where the filter adaptor goes. Could you add a plate there to use an external suction? Or are the cavities for supply and return to the filter?

It would be easy to have a suction and a discharge adapter made to fit. Block off the suction on the block or in the cover itself and route the line to your oil pan for an external suction line. You can also have a external pressure line but I'm not sure how you would keep the pressure by-pass. I'd have to think a little more on that one...


Not pictured is the oil filter adapter that bolts to the side of the cover.

Original FWD oil filter adapter that you will have to make with an external suction/pressure adapter.

 

[Turbo1dr]

The differences I seen going from a stock pump to a gerotor pump is minimal when it comes to oil pressure. At hot idle my pressure was 18-22psi. Running at highway speeds it's about 47-50psi at 2200 rpm. IMO, if you guys think you're going to get hot idle oil pressures of 40 psi I think you're going to be dissappointed with the 109 block.

Well, well, well... seems like I was DEAD WRONG about what I said above. I don't know if it was because I modified the oiling system or just the fact I have a new rebuilt engine with a different block. The other engine(s) had lower oil pressure that would match what a stock GN pump would put out. Anyway, this new stroker engine I built last week has 39-42psi HOT IDLE pressure with 20W50 oil. Cruising at 1750 it runs 63psi HOT. This was after a 15 mile cruise and idling for about 10 minutes. I did drill my main bearings shells out to match the size of the holes in the block and I redrilled my cam bearings with a .090" hole and reclocked them. I also ported the front cover and ported what I could reach in the block.

Oil pressure on upper right and temp in lower right. This was in gear idling.

Here's a video of the oil pressure and how fast it starts with the late model "fast start" iginition.
http://www.turbomalibu.com/faststart/faststart&oilpressure.WMV

 

[MAX PSI]

It would be easy to have a suction and a discharge adapter made to fit. Block off the suction on the block or in the cover itself and route the line to your oil pan for an external suction line. You can also have a external pressure line but I'm not sure how you would keep the pressure by-pass. I'd have to think a little more on that one...


Not pictured is the oil filter adapter that bolts to the side of the cover.

Original FWD oil filter adapter that you will have to make with an external suction/pressure adapter.

Thanks your photos clears it up. I have a remote filter mounted to the frame all I would have to do is make a plate with npt threads for an fittings for suction and pressure lines. The suction passage in my block is already blocked off. After the oil goes through the filter it enters the block where the sending unit used to be. Its been drilled and tapped to 3/8" npt. For the pressure bypass all you would have to do is return it to the suction side in the plate or better yet to the pan.

 

[MAX PSI]

Looking at it closer doesn't the pressure relief dump to the inside of the cover next to the pump body. If so it wouldn't be too hard to make an adjustable pressure regulater in the adapter plate.

 

[Turbo1dr]

No. The pressure relief allows the oil to "loop" back into the suction side of the cover.

That small hole you see is where the bypass valve spring is located. If that relief hole wasnt there the bypass valve would not be able to move.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

How about this thing for the Series II/III?
Don't make excuses. Make horsepower. Its under the Hardcore Engine section

 

[S2V6RACER]

Looking at it closer doesn't the pressure relief dump to the inside of the cover next to the pump body. If so it wouldn't be too hard to make an adjustable pressure regulater in the adapter plate.

You should keep this quiet Phil, you can bet with your performance this year you will be outlawed next year with this setup!!!

 

[MAX PSI]

How about this thing for the Series II/III?
Don't make excuses. Make horsepower. Its under the Hardcore Engine section

That's it. Looks like I'll have a project to keep me busy over the winter now.

 

[MAX PSI]

You should keep this quiet Phil, you can bet with your performance this year you will be outlawed next year with this setup!!!

I would hope not. It wouldn't stand out as much as a belt driven wet sump, which should fit the rules. Not only will it make the dist./cam gears last for ever it will reduce the load on the timing chain. How many TSM cars have broke chains and cost them a motor. I know of a couple southern racers a possilably the guy sitting in first place right now With the cam and valve spring pressures I run, any reduced load will make the chain last longer.

 

[49-blues]

Cant see the hardcore engine parts section on my computer- their webpage sits too low and doesnt show anything below cooling section-could you post a link? with the info so i can purchase one of these.

 

[49-blues]

Never mind i found it and ordered the plate and a oil pressure kit to raise the pressure to 80-85 lbs-total cost= $180. the plates not cheap at $140. but i hope it will be well worth the results.

 

[quickt]

That's it. Looks like I'll have a project to keep me busy over the winter now.

That plate wont work but one can be made that will

 

[quickt]

That's it. Looks like I'll have a project to keep me busy over the winter now.

That plate wont work but one can be made that will.

 

[quickt]

Well, I managed to get a crank in a spare block, get the cover halves trimmed and bolted down, and made some cardboard templates for the sheetmetal patch pieces. It's starting to look like a possibility! Good thing I have a trashed crank or two and some spare bearings, plus the odd 4.1 block or two lying around. Some new pics are at:

Yahoo! Photos

Kendall could you shoot some of your pics to me. I want to make a couple of these covers and try them out.

info@extremeautomatics.com

 

[49-blues]

Lonnie- why wont those plates work-what needs to be done? i have a couple spare front covers.

 

[S2V6RACER]

I would hope not. It wouldn't stand out as much as a belt driven wet sump, which should fit the rules. Not only will it make the dist./cam gears last for ever it will reduce the load on the timing chain. How many TSM cars have broke chains and cost them a motor. I know of a couple southern racers a possilably the guy sitting in first place right now With the cam and valve spring pressures I run, any reduced load will make the chain last longer.

Just teasing you Phil. Seriously, I think it's a great idea. After seeing how well the oiling is with the belt driven wet sump, I think it would/should also be a option.

 

[MAX PSI]

Lonnie- why wont those plates work-what needs to be done? i have a couple spare front covers.

What Lonnie is saying is it wont work with my setup. That plate is for a remote mount filter. It still uses the internal suction/pressure passages in the block/cover. I have an external suction and pressure lines. It could be made to work with my set up but at $140. I'll make , I mean, Lonnie will make me one.

 

[CTX-SLPR]

I guess for those of us planning this, what is the advantage of an external feed over the stock feed system in the block save the ability to run a wider stroker crank?

 

[MAX PSI]

I guess for those of us planning this, what is the advantage of an external feed over the stock feed system in the block save the ability to run a wider stroker crank?

I don't know on a staged block but on a 109 yes. Plus the block passages are small and restrictive. It makes a sharp 90* before it gets to the cover then there are some restrictive passages in the cover.

 

[ttypewhite]

The question I have is how strong are those Gerotor gears in the pump? When I had my turbocharged LS/VTEC Integra I had updated mine to the Prodrive harden gears that is supposed to handle good hp. But it broke the gears behind the cover due to launching the car. Those gears make one hell of a mess when they snap. They basically disinagrate and shot bits and pieces all throughout the motor. That whole oiling system has me nervous. Not knocking it, just stating my experience with that type of oil system. They can not handle any type of crankshaft vibration. Like shocking it with a transbrake launch or something along that effect.