Grooms and RJC girdle engine trouble.

[rpk250]

Sorry so long. Just recieved my level 3 Grooms short block today. As I un-crated it the top half of an ARP rod bolt fell onto the floor. The bolt had broken where the threads meet the smooth part of the bolt. I called Grooms, they said either to bring it back, or try to get the rest of the bolt out. After a few hours of very patient work I got the other end out. They now, are sending me another bolt to put in it's place. Not a good start to this motor. So I hope this solves the problem. They told me to torque it to 40 ft/lb. Does this sound right and do you forsee any future problems? Also have some extra girdle parts I'm not so sure about.
15 flat silver washers
3 1 7/8" studs, maybe for timing cover?
3 short 1/2" allen bolts
3 1/4" flange nuts, maybe for studs on timing cover?
2 1 1/2" allen bolts, maybe for oil pickup?
17 flange nuts probably for oil pan
Then there is one long 13" aluminum piece with notches along one side and 3 small holes in it?
Also on the back of the girdle, on the studs there are 2 nuts that don't allow the oil pan to sit flush on the girdle. Are these nuts supposed to be there?

 

[gnxtc2]

15 flat silver washers

-Sealing washers for the girdle. Goes between the oil pan gasket and girdle.

3 1 7/8" studs, maybe for timing cover?

-Yep. They go on after you install your timing cover. Don't forget to put sealant on the girdle to timing cover surface.

3 short 1/2" allen bolts

-Attach that 13" piece of aluminum to the girdle, oil deflector

3 1/4" flange nuts, maybe for studs on timing cover?

-Yep

2 1 1/2" allen bolts, maybe for oil pickup?

-Yep. Should also be an extension for the oil pickup. And 2 gaskets

17 flange nuts probably for oil pan

-Yep, should be 5/16

Then there is one long 13" aluminum piece with notches along one side and 3 small holes in it?

-oil deflector

Also on the back of the girdle, on the studs there are 2 nuts that don't allow the oil pan to sit flush on the girdle. Are these nuts supposed to be there?

-Be more specific. Are they on rear cap? On the outer corners?

I would double check all rods bolts if I were you.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

 

[buddiiee]

wow..

The knowledge on this board..amazes me.

 

[disco stu]

So is the girdle already installed? And the crank scraper (oild deflector) is not? Because you will have to position it on the girdle, mark the holes, and drill and tap the girdle for the scraper.

And also, fill the counter bore holes for the nuts with silicone (I prefer great stuff). Just fill em up. Or oil will get around those studs and you will have a leaker.

 

[rpk250]

All of the studs on the girdle have sunken holes with nuts in them, except the very back of the girdle over the rear main cap. There the nuts are threaded down on the studs, but are not sunken into the girdle. They are sitting on top of the girdle. These two nuts are keeping the oil pan from sitting flush on the girdle.
Sealing washers? Do I put these down into the holes in the girdle, so they are on top of the bronze washers already in there, and then fill the holes with sealent?
Oil deflector? Is this needed?
Thanks great answers, I don't know what I would do without this board.

 

[Marc87GN]

15 flat silver washers

-Sealing washers for the girdle. Goes between the oil pan gasket and girdle.

3 1 7/8" studs, maybe for timing cover?

-Yep. They go on after you install your timing cover. Don't forget to put sealant on the girdle to timing cover surface.

3 short 1/2" allen bolts

-Attach that 13" piece of aluminum to the girdle, oil deflector

3 1/4" flange nuts, maybe for studs on timing cover?

-Yep

2 1 1/2" allen bolts, maybe for oil pickup?

-Yep. Should also be an extension for the oil pickup. And 2 gaskets

17 flange nuts probably for oil pan

-Yep, should be 5/16

Then there is one long 13" aluminum piece with notches along one side and 3 small holes in it?

-oil deflector

Also on the back of the girdle, on the studs there are 2 nuts that don't allow the oil pan to sit flush on the girdle. Are these nuts supposed to be there?

-Be more specific. Are they on rear cap? On the outer corners?

I would double check all rods bolts if I were you.

Billy T.
gnxtc2@aol.com

Damn good post! I wish this was posted when I received my block 2 months ago. I was scratching my head for a while and still never installed the scraper because I didn't know what it was. No way I was pulling off the deep pan after figthing to get the engine in with it on. . So far, 1K miles and no leaks. I understand that they now use a Toyota Sealer between the girdle and the block that's about $26 for 3 oz.

 

[Scott231]

WTF? How many of youare purchasing oil scrapers and don't even know what they are? How can you purchase a girdle and not even begin to undertand how it is assembled?

It sounds to me like your motor assembly may have not even been machined for the girdle. Installing the girdle requires machining the caps for proper fit and pre-load. The only "left over" pieces you should have are extra shims.

You need to call Groom engines back. And I would suggest you call Jason at RJC racing and have him fax to you the instruction sheet again.

BTW, you use Permatex The Right Stuff sealant, not "Great Stuff" and it is only $18 a can instead of $26. No need to go to Toyota for their overpriced sealant.

 

[Marc87GN]

WTF? How many of youare purchasing oil scrapers and don't even know what they are? How can you purchase a girdle and not even begin to undertand how it is assembled?

It sounds to me like your motor assembly may have not even been machined for the girdle. Installing the girdle requires machining the caps for proper fit and pre-load. The only "left over" pieces you should have are extra shims.

You need to call Groom engines back. And I would suggest you call Jason at RJC racing and have him fax to you the instruction sheet again.

BTW, you use Permatex The Right Stuff sealant, not "Great Stuff" and it is only $18 a can instead of $26. No need to go to Toyota for their overpriced sealant.

Um, the engine arrives with the girdle installed so none of us are doing anything. "Grooms" is using this sealant and not us because it suppose to be some of the best stuff to use. Whether it's needed or not isn't the issue. I didn't need a Level 3 block built for a street car, but I don't believe in doing things twice or more and neither should they. This is how my engine arrived as it should. they build a great number of these engines so I would hope they know what they are doing.

 

[rpk250]

Thanks for the picture. It looks like my girdle is drilled and tapped for the oil deflector. Looks like it fits on the oil pick-up side of the girdle, with the notches facing in towards the crank journals. Is the deflector very effective, and is most everybody using it? Scott 231, are you confusing the crank scraper, that RJC sells seperately, with the oil deflector because they are two different things? The oil deflector must be included in the girdle package, because in my research on the RJC site, I never saw mention of it.
By the way, I do know how the girdle is installed. I downloaded the instructions before I contacted Grooms, but unfortunatly I do not own a machine shop, and like the post before I want to do this right and only once. That is what this forum is for.

 

[disco stu]

I don't think as many people are using it as the ones that are not. But there is really no downside to it. Keeps weight off the crank which might be worth some free power, and also will keep a little more oil in the pan. I put one on mine last go around.

Be sure to clean the threads with some brake cleaner and locktite the bolts. If it came loose it would no doubt be ugly.

 

[disco stu]

WTF? How many of youare purchasing oil scrapers and don't even know what they are? How can you purchase a girdle and not even begin to undertand how it is assembled?

It sounds to me like your motor assembly may have not even been machined for the girdle. Installing the girdle requires machining the caps for proper fit and pre-load. The only "left over" pieces you should have are extra shims.

You need to call Groom engines back. And I would suggest you call Jason at RJC racing and have him fax to you the instruction sheet again.

BTW, you use Permatex The Right Stuff sealant, not "Great Stuff" and it is only $18 a can instead of $26. No need to go to Toyota for their overpriced sealant.

Haha, sorry, I was thinking "Right Stuff", but typed "Great Stuff". :redface: which would not what you want to use.

And Scott is right. Don't know anything about Groom but if they are a Buick outfit then surely they know how to set up a block properly for a girdle. Good luck.

 

[rpk250]

The coming loose part is the thing that's got me worried.

 

[gnxis]

i wouldnt worry about a grooms motor. when i got mine i had cam bearing issues, turned out my "BUICK" mechanic had not primed the motor properly.
my mech refused to take any responsibility so doug at grooms stepped up and sent me a complete level 3 shortblock at about 1/4 of the cost. never did get anything out of mech. but grooms is a stand up company !!!! period.

 

[Scott231]

Scott 231, are you confusing the crank scraper, that RJC sells seperately, with the oil deflector because they are two different things? The oil deflector must be included in the girdle package, because in my research on the RJC site, I never saw mention of it.

The RJC Racing Oil Shield/Crank Scraper is one piece, available as an option with the girdle.
http://www.rjcracing.com/RJC_Buick_Products/RJC_Engine_Girdle/CS/cs.html

 

[frankg]

Those scapers are nice, they help stop the chance of oil pan leaks too from oil splashing up there. Frank

 

[norbs]

Youu better buy one of those oil eater mats. I can't stop my girdle from leaking i am on the 3rd attempt to stop it, involving pulling the motor each time. I wish you louck with it.

 

[Marc87GN]

Youu better buy one of those oil eater mats. I can't stop my girdle from leaking i am on the 3rd attempt to stop it, involving pulling the motor each time. I wish you louck with it.

Just out of curiosity, what area does it leak from and does it consistently leak from the same area?

 

[Cheeseburger]

Youu better buy one of those oil eater mats. I can't stop my girdle from leaking i am on the 3rd attempt to stop it, involving pulling the motor each time. I wish you louck with it.

I built mine with a girdle and no leaks at all, when you do the job properly there is no leaks!

 

[BobbyBuick]

watch the 2 studs that go into the rear cap.fill the holes with sealant as oil will leak out the threads.I have no problems with leaks after many builds since 1999 same motor

 

[disco stu]

Youu better buy one of those oil eater mats. I can't stop my girdle from leaking i am on the 3rd attempt to stop it, involving pulling the motor each time. I wish you louck with it.

I finally got mine to be completely leak free. Now my cometics do the leakin'. LOL.