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GRRR!!! Busted piston, easiest/best way to fix?? (pics attached)

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FlaBoy

Just a good ole boy...
Joined
Jun 6, 2003
Messages
586
Well I took off my heads to replace a suspected blown head gasket, and when I popped the head off, turns out the situation is worse than originally thought. One of my pistons has a small piece missing from the edge, and about half of its circumference (centered on the missing piece) seems to be eroded/damaged. Under closer inspection, it seems there are small flecks of what I assume are melted metal stuck to the top surface of the piston in the damaged area. Below are some pictures of the piston in question:

TML%20IMG_0339%20%28Medium%29.JPG

And a closeup
TML%20IMG_0339_a%20%28Small%29.jpg

Different lighting
TML%20IMG_0342%20%28Medium%29.JPG

And a closeup
TML%20IMG_0342_a%20%28Small%29.jpg


The car seemed to run pretty good before I took it apart. The only reason I decided to replace the HG was that the one cylinder had slightly lower compression than the rest, and I had a coolant leak that hadn't gone away after replacing all the usual suspects. Since the coolant wasn't leaking anyplace externally that I could find, I assumed I had a leaky HG.

Surprisingly, the cylinder bore itself seems okay, the worst looking part (the scoremarks where the major piston damage is) seems very smooth to the touch, and doesn't catch a fingernail when drug across.

My first question is, what would be the quickest and most economical way to fix this? I am on a very limited budget, and was hoping to get the car back in running shape before the fall semester begins and I am swamped with research, teaching, etc. Oh, and since I haven't mentioned this yet, the engine is still in the car, so if it all possible I would prefer to fix it without having to yank the whole motor (its parked in my driveway which has a rather steep slope so pulling the motor would not be fun). My hope is that I can just drop the oil pan, pull that rod and piston out, give that cylinder a quickie hone-job, put a new piston/ring-set on the old rod and bolt it all back up. From your guys experience, does this seem like a workable fix? The car is a hotair, and my daily driver, so its not ever going to see much more than stock boost or power levels and might make it to the track once or twice a year just to see what it'll do. Like I said, I'm really trying to get a workable fix done easily and quickly here, so while I know it'd be ideal to pull the motor, get it professionally gone through, etc. I'm hoping it won't come to that.

My second question is when replacing the bad piston, any clue where to get another one? I have no idea if the pistons in there are stock. Are the stock hotair pistons the same as the stock IC'd pistons? If so, mine do not appear to match the ones pictured in the
Piston Photo Guide on GNTType.org as the stockers have a dimple to denote the front side, whereas mine have two notches. In addition, mine also have "STD" stamped/cast into their top surface (I assume denoting standard bore, as opposed to .030 over, etc.). If anyone can identify these pistons, or shed any light on which brand/type of piston I should get to replace it, please let me know. I assume I should get the same style/brand as the one in there to replace it to retain the same weight and balance for the rotating assembly.

I know this is a long post, but I really need some help here guys, I need to get this car back on the road soon, and this damn piston just threw me a stumbling block. Thanks for any assistance you can give me.
 
Finally got all the picture attachments sorted out, hopefully this post will make sense now :)
 
Mine looked the same when I pulled it apart, I had no known issues, I pulled it apart for a cam swap and piece of mind (I knew the previous owner didn't exactly take it easy on this car).

I don't know what your budget is, but it won't be a cheap fix.

Basically it's motor rebuild time.
 
From the pics it looks to be factory 84/85 Vin code 9 cast pistons, which are not the reinforced 86/87 Vin code 7 pistons, if the bore is good and you "Have" to limit your repairs, I would search for a factory(new/used) piston, better yet pull all your piston/rod assemblies and inspect them and the bearings while it's open, just be as clean as you can, do not attempt this unless in a clean environment, your best bet is to pull engine and put on engine stand, strip it down and clean everything as best you can while inspecting everything, nothing wrong with putting it back together with used parts as long as they are serviceable, you may only "see" one bad piston right now, but you may have other damaged/worn components that need replacement now, get them now or risk further(more expensive) damage later. Just remember, Clean-Clean-Clean. Good luck.

Kevin.
 
I believe detonation causes that issue... Alcohol injection helps, higher octane, or lower boost... is your wastegate adjustable? Do you have an aftermarket boost guage? I had a motor that had 2 pistons looking like that... A lean mixture could also cause that... What did the valves from the cylinder look like? Do you have pix of the head/chamber from that cylinder? My motor was shot, it scored the cylinder too bad to bore even 60 over!!!! I junked that block for a 109, then sold that to get a build hot air block with TRW pistons and a a 206 cam... hehehehehe... progress...


Check your intake gasket (replacing it anyway with the head gasket), and make sure the torque specs are correct when you re-assemble... As far as easy fixin, youre going to have to drop the pan to replace that piston no matter what...


Good luck and keep us posted!!!


John:biggrin:
 
This is one of those "it depends" answers :-). Drop the oil pan and pull the rod and main caps and see if you find lots of scratches and copper showing, from metal going through. If the bearings are beat up, dropping in a single piston with new bearings probably won't last all that long because the crank is sure to be hurt and the oil pressure won't hold up. If the bottom end looks good, and it's just to get back on the road for as long as possible, I'd do it. After you pull the rod cap go ahead and pull that piston, maybe you can find some more markings on the bottom.
 
One of the REALLY helpful hotair gurus posted a picture of a stock hotair piston, and it looks exactly like mine. He is also offering to send me a spare good piston/rod combo he has, so I think I will take him up on that. (you're a life saver, Jerryl)

As far as detonation goes, my knock sensor was non-functioning the last few weeks I had the car running (which I now wish I had noticed much sooner) and between it getting overheated once or twice with the coolant leak, and the lack of an intercooler, I'm pretty sure thats what caused the damage. Needless to say, I have a brand new knock sensor ready to be installed. While I have the top end apart, I was already planning on replacing every seal, gasket, and stretch of bad wiring i could get to, so i have all those parts lined up already.

Money and time are tight for me (who here doesn't know what thats like?) so I'm going to do the best I can with whats available to me. My main goal is to get the car back together and running for another little bit until I have the money to put into it that it deserves.

When it comes to installing a used piston, I assume I should re-hone the cylinder so the bore and the new rings can mate properly? I have seen 2 different types of hones, the ones with 3 long stone shoes, and ones that look like a bristle brush with metal balls on the end (flex-hones). I dont know enough to know which is better, any ideas?

Lastly, is there any problem with installing a new set of rod bearings on a crank that has not had the journals resurfaced? What I mean is, assuming the journals look good, no damage etc. is there any problem with putting new bearings on it, or will the journal not mate with the new bearings properly since they've already been mated and broken in on the old bearings? (not sure if im asking this clearly, hopefully you understand what I mean)
 
Im glad you found a rod and piston from a fellow hotair guy.

If it was mine, pull the old rod and piston out and check to see if there is any damage done where you currently cannot see since the piston is in the way.
Check the rod bearing, and find the number on it.. .001 .002 ect Thats the bearing your going to need to replace it with. Im going to assume its still a standard crank.

Find a new set of rings for that piston. hastings, full circle what ever molly rings you can find. I believe the full circle or total circle do not need to be filed down for fitment Summit Racing – High Performance Car and Truck Parts l 800-230-3030

Id use ALOT of transmission oil while using the 3 stone hone, use ALOT of transmission oil and do a smooth up and down stroke for about 10-15 seconds on slow... not fast.. slow but not super slow... with a drill

Check for a good pattern, if need be, do it one more time for 10 seconds with ALOT of transmission oil... Your going to make a HUGE MESS!

Clean it with HOT SOAPY WATER and a white cloth, do not use brake clean cause it wont get the metal out of the cylinder wall. Hot soapy water, dont need to make a big mess when doing this, but clean that cyl wall really good, then soak with oil.

Soak the piston in oil with the new rings on it, and get a ring compressor to install it.
Should take about 1 hour to do it. LOL :smile:

Ive been told in the past, dont do just one rod bearing, it will break the crank.. But that was a SBC Maybe someone else will chime in on what to do about using the old bearing or a new one

BW
 
There's no problem putting a new bearing on a worn crank journal so long as it doesn't have any burrs, except for the obvious clearance and oil consumption issues. Some scratches are ok, just make sure there's nothing that will "catch" your fingernail. I'd do all the mains and rod bearings and new rear main seal while you are down there.
 
There's no problem putting a new bearing on a worn crank journal so long as it doesn't have any burrs, except for the obvious clearance and oil consumption issues. Some scratches are ok, just make sure there's nothing that will "catch" your fingernail. I'd do all the mains and rod bearings and new rear main seal while you are down there.

I've seen it work many times
 
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