Head bolts or studs

[Sal Lubrano]

I am in the process of getting all the parts I need to install ported heads. The head gaskets will be victor 3797. I currently have in my hands some used ARP 123-3603 bolts. The paperwork with them say 170,000psi. I have went on the website and the same parts number for their performance bolts today have a rating of 180,000. I don't want to cut corners wit the quality of the job. Should get some ARP Studs, Professional Bolts 200,000 psi, Replacement High performance Bolts 180,000 psi, OEMreplacement fel-pro or sealed power or just reuse what I have? I like the idea of using a stock type gasket as the weak link but I do want them to hold boost close to 30psi.

 

[Otto J]

Studs all the way IMO

 

[charlief1]

Studs all the way IMO

Make that 2 of us.:biggrin:

 

[TURBOPOWERED68]

Studs all the way IMO

Make that 2 of us.:biggrin:

Why?

 

[charlief1]

Why?

Better clamping power at a lower torque vaue for one David.

 

[vacuum 6]

Better clamping power at a lower torque vaue for one David.

Other reasons?

 

[charlief1]

Completely re-usable unless you have a catistrophic failure of course.

 

[EVIL87]

Studs are better they distribute the clamping force between the bottom threads and the top ones, plus you can bottom out the stud and get 100% of the engine block threads.

 

[EVIL]

Which studs 12 point or hex

Which bolts are better the

123-4203 12-Point Head, or the
123-4003 with the Hex Head

thank you
D

 

[turbodave231]

Sal,

I'm gonna put on my flame suit first.......

I have a lot of experience using the stock composite Head gaskets with TTY bolts. I ran this combination for many years and made many high 10 and low 11 second passes. If you are using Stock gaskets, use new TTY bolts and follow the factory torque procedure. Why? They were designed to work together!

Will they blow? Absolutely!! But only with detonation. I NEVER blew a stock composite gasket without detonation. As long as you know how to tune your engine, you will be OK. I regularly ran boost levels up to 30 psi on a stock unported stock cammed engine. I took the engine out of my racecar when I went with a S2 engine and put it back in a street car.

 

[m233roller]

Studs??

Hey Sal,
I agree with Dave only I've always ran ARP bolts and for the last 10 years studs with good ole GM stock head gaskets and in 20 years have only took out 2 head gaskets and BOTH times it was my own stupid fault as the tune was BAD !! Have ran some pretty hi boost numbers also. 24 to 28 lbs. many times. Mike

 

[tcgn]

Arp studs

I was using ARP bolts and while torquing the heads I pulled the threads of three of them. I heli-coil three of them and thought it was fine. I cannot tighten the head bolts all the way down. On attempt to remove the three head bolts, all the heli-coil came out with the bolts.
So I bought a big-sert kit and ARP head studs and today I torque them all down using fel pro 9441PT to 85 ft lb. What a relieve, tomorrow continuing to install intake, timing cover, etc. I highly recommend using ARP head studs. No worrys about pulling thread when torquing head.

 

[S10xGN]

I was using ARP bolts and while torquing the heads I pulled the threads of three of them. I heli-coil three of them and thought it was fine. I cannot tighten the head bolts all the way down. On attempt to remove the three head bolts, all the heli-coil came out with the bolts.
So I bought a big-sert kit and ARP head studs and today I torque them all down using fel pro 9441PT to 85 ft lb. What a relieve, tomorrow continuing to install intake, timing cover, etc. I highly recommend using ARP head studs. No worrys about pulling thread when torquing head.

You do know there are 3 different length bolts, right? Sounds like you got some of the (outer row) short bolts in the wrong holes...

 

[tcgn]

head bolts

You do know there are 3 different length bolts, right? Sounds like you got some of the (outer row) short bolts in the wrong holes...


The ARP bolts has two different lengths, it's impossible to mix the bolts, the two longer bolts goes in the top middle, that is highest point of the head. If you use the longer bolt in another location, it will tighten down but it won't even touch the head. I was on the final torque of 85 ft. lbs. that's when I felt it got loose. Hope that helps you to understand on what happened.

 

[jasjamz]

Is there any actual testing to prove the studs vs. Bolts. I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison to see just how much of a difference it makes.

 

[LC2ROD]

Studs get my vote.

 

[S10xGN]

The ARP bolts has two different lengths, it's impossible to mix the bolts, the two longer bolts goes in the top middle, that is highest point of the head. If you use the longer bolt in another location, it will tighten down but it won't even touch the head. I was on the final torque of 85 ft. lbs. that's when I felt it got loose. Hope that helps you to understand on what happened.

OK, maybe for bolts, I've never run bolts before. ARP studs have three lengths. The two top row "inners" are longest, the two top row "outers" are mid-length and the four bottom row studs are the shortest. The difference in each length is about 1/4". And I'd have to argue about the "impossibility" of installing them wrong, they all have the same thread and can be put in any of the holes...

 

[lgonzalez_1986]

dont know but i wil go with studs

 

[Phoneguy]

Is there any actual testing to prove the studs vs. Bolts. I wouldn't mind seeing a comparison to see just how much of a difference it makes.

Page 37 of the 2011 ARP catalog online gives their explanation of bolts vs studs. I tried to copy and paste but failed...
They dont say how much of a difference, just that you get a more even clamping.

Bryan

 

[mybuick]

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