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Heads up.. STP oil treatment ZDDP @ target $.97

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Wow I didn't think where was much wear issues with roller setup.

bingo...

You guys use it?


i do.....$10 bucks to help out my motor is a no brainer to me......Richard has done all the leg work to make sure that his bottle has more than enough zinc to help our engines...why would anyone guess the contet amount of zinc in all the other additives or expensive oils out there?????
 
Wow I didn't think where was much wear issues with roller setup.

There isn't much for wear issues on the lobes of the roller cams, at least the billet cores. I don't have much info/experience on the austempered cores.

However, the ZDDPlus additive should/will help with all wear areas inside the motor. IE., lifter bore scuffing, cylinder bore scuffing, oil pump gears, camshaft sensor gear, etc., etc... Anywhere you have metal-to-metal contact... It's not all about the camshaft...


K.
 
?

OK, if it was reduced in current oils to lower emissions but, has been known to eat catalytic converters, what happens when my friend runs it in his new ZR1 and those things go bye bye?

kirban 2 cents worth

the product is NOT I repeat not marketed for the late model cars which have vast improvements in the engine so they can operate on less zddp concentration.

My point on the breakin oil from GM was it was loaded with zddp to provide proper break in.....and probably should have remained in the engine until the engine was broken in...whatever is called for in the owners manual.

Every flat tappet set up needs every performance roller set up in cars such as street rods etc that are not under warranty issues with the cataltyic converter.

kirban performance.com
 
I think it's interesting that we spend big bucks on parts, ARP fasteners, big name products then try to save a few cents on the life blood of an engine!
Just buy the right stuff, from companies that support US!

well said!!!! :cool:
 
kirban 2 cents worth

the product is NOT I repeat not marketed for the late model cars which have vast improvements in the engine so they can operate on less zddp concentration.

My point on the breakin oil from GM was it was loaded with zddp to provide proper break in.....and probably should have remained in the engine until the engine was broken in...whatever is called for in the owners manual.

Every flat tappet set up needs every performance roller set up in cars such as street rods etc that are not under warranty issues with the cataltyic converter.

kirban performance.com



Glad I didn't bring zddp up with him then, I would feel horrible if I bought him some and it in some way affected the 100K warranty on his ZR1. At what point do you determine an engine design to be new enough not to need it? Like my '99 5.7 vortec or '03 Buick 3.8? Just wondering.

Don't take this the wrong way Dennis but, it seems that perhaps yourself and other vendors may have missed some opportunities to educate most of us on the ill affects of not running the correct amount of protective elements in our engines. Look at it this way, you have tough job ahead of you, most people don't care about endorsements you may have, Slick50 and "those" other oil additives had all kinds of people endorsing their product and sponsored some pretty big events. That's what you have to beat for your product to sell. I know you have some basic testimonials from people on your web site, more data and testing results made available to the public would go along way for your sales.

I would not have started this thread if I didn't think our engines need it. The STP product I mentioned has higher levels than most mainstream products. That's why I posted for people that need to save a buck or two or maybe need to start running something. Honestly, I never even knew about your product before your first post in this thread. IMO, it was more on the side of arrogance than taking advantage of an opportunity to educate and maybe obtain new customers but, hey if that's how you want to introduce your product, go ahead. You have some work ahead of you. It seems as though you are a paying vendor here? Why not sponsor a weekly Buick Regal trivia game and the prize is 6 or so bottles of your product. First correct post wins. Make it fun, like if you have problem XY or Z, what should you check first for diagnostics. Here is the first question "What are the major causes or low BLM or how to issolate the problem" I seriously need that answer....Members may actually tune in just to learn some things about our cars. Just a thought.
 
Glad I didn't bring zddp up with him then, I would feel horrible if I bought him some and it in some way affected the 100K warranty on his ZR1. At what point do you determine an engine design to be new enough not to need it? Like my '99 5.7 vortec or '03 Buick 3.8? Just wondering.

Don't take this the wrong way Dennis but, it seems that perhaps yourself and other vendors may have missed some opportunities to educate most of us on the ill affects of not running the correct amount of protective elements in our engines. Look at it this way, you have tough job ahead of you, most people don't care about endorsements you may have, Slick50 and "those" other oil additives had all kinds of people endorsing their product and sponsored some pretty big events. That's what you have to beat for your product to sell. I know you have some basic testimonials from people on your web site, more data and testing results made available to the public would go along way for your sales.

I would not have started this thread if I didn't think our engines need it. The STP product I mentioned has higher levels than most mainstream products. That's why I posted for people that need to save a buck or two or maybe need to start running something. Honestly, I never even knew about your product before your first post in this thread. IMO, it was more on the side of arrogance than taking advantage of an opportunity to educate and maybe obtain new customers but, hey if that's how you want to introduce your product, go ahead. You have some work ahead of you. It seems as though you are a paying vendor here? Why not sponsor a weekly Buick Regal trivia game and the prize is 6 or so bottles of your product. First correct post wins. Make it fun, like if you have problem XY or Z, what should you check first for diagnostics. Here is the first question "What are the major causes or low BLM or how to issolate the problem" I seriously need that answer....Members may actually tune in just to learn some things about our cars. Just a thought.

kirban 2 cents worth

we have all the tech briefs and it is on our website kirbanperformance.com

I will gave basic brief later tonite.

Which will answer a lot of questions.

Also help those understand about marketing and how very tough it is to market a new product in a normal economy climate let alone one that is as bad as it gets.

As for the price structure of $10 we picked the perfect price structure for the product. The start up costs and equipment costs runs in thousands and thousands of dollars...just to register the trademark in the UK was five grand. Considering the massive benefits of saving wear issues in an engine $10 on any level is a super deal. Afterall on a $10 retail price how much profit can be in $10 after its wholesaled etc....and you print advertising flyers etc.

Will the product be in stores, yes I am confident some day it will be and we are working to that goal. Meantime we have some of the largest companies in mail order selling it and engine warehouses.

The fact it was developed by an actual Buick owner (the largest collector) gives the product extremely high creditbility. Gettings Don Garlits as a spokesperson is a major plus. Anyone familar with his accomplishments knowns he is a hands on guy his entire racing career.

Again facts will follow later tonite no time at work to go into more detail.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

member it boils down to this: wear happens gradually reason some car owners can't fathom that damage is occuring yet engine builders who tear down engines can.
 
I use that little bottle religiously. I have too much invested in this motor to risk wiping it by saving $9.00/oil change.

Mikey
 
kirban 2 cents worth

Concerning the product ZDDPlus™

We have published with the company behind it over a dozen important tech briefs on the issues.

The first tech brief answers your questions about why you need the product and what is ZDDP?

Rather than print up all this info here, you can find it by going to our website kirbanperformance.com when the home page appears click on customer service at the top once that opens up scroll down and click on the first ZDDPlus™ tech brief.

If you have our website book marked and its been awhile redo it as we have a far newer website up and running in the last 60 days . Normally the info on ZDDPlus wold appear if you click on the bottle but it is not set up as of yet.

Our website now has all our products on it.

The above post from Faster really says it all...

In a nutshell the product now has tremendous creditbility. Heck in the turbo world it should not even be an issue since it was brought and produced by a person who has the largest collection of these cars.

With sellng direct to 4 cam companies that a year ago never heard of my company is a strong statement right there. Certiail ymany of you have heard of some of these companies Crower, Isky, Delt, Erson.

We have tried with Comp but no luck as of yet.

We also sell direct to 2 of the largest engine warehouses in the country that only sell direct to engine builders. In the supply industry Eastwood is near the top in anyones book.

My source has also just informed me that the product will be put in the Gallina/Freeman car prior to racing next week at Bowling Green. This was the fastest car last year at the GS Nats.

I have a typed testamonial frm RaceKrafters out of Lancaster, PA Phone 717-399-8780 website RaceKrafters

They been using ZDDPlus™ in all their flat tappet and camshaft problems have gone away completely. They have had zero failures.

Recently they started adding it to their race engines with solid roller lifters. Engines that turn 9,500 rpms, with over 1,100 lbs of open spring pressure. The end result with this product they have seen a signiifcant reduction in cam lobe and roller wheel scuffing.

This company has built engines that have appeared in many national magazines.
Their is absolutely noting in this 4 ounce bottle that was not in your oil when our cars were new.....

Neither ZPPLus™ or our company recommends one oil over another. Conventionl or synthetic it does not matter this product mixes with either.

More details in next post.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com
 
kirban 2 cents worth

The fact we got Don Garlits as a spokesperson who has 144 national wins and has always been a hands on drag racer also adds tremendous creditability to the product.

Some of you may have heard of the Engine Masters Challenge. They get about 30 entries every year. The scoring is based on the average power and torque per cubic inch over the full dyno sweep from 2,500 to 6,500 rpms.

Engines as small as 302 to as big as 464 compete.

In 2007 several had cam issues during the contest including DOVE PERFORMANCE.
Dove should be a fairly familar name to some of you hard core racers as they are the largest manufacturer in the US for aluminum roller rockers producing in excess of 40,000 every year for 20 years. They do them for other companies as well.

Last year 2008 Dove entered a 352 Ford FE engine pushed out over 500 hp and did 25-30 dyno pulls with ZDDPlus™ in the oil. Tear it down saw no wear in the cam or lifters.

I expect to get a testamonial from them soon. Mopar big blocks and Ford with shaft mounted rockers will definately benefit from ZDDPlus in the oil. DOVE phone number is 440-236-5139 Earl Valtman is who will attest to this.

You can see how important this issue has become as several companies have rushed oils onto the market place stating we have zinc....zinc is great however zddp is the entire molecule you need not just zinc.

Look at your visor decal on your 1986-1987 Turbo Regal it clearly states use a QUALITY SF OIL....

Todays oils if it has the star burst on the back no matter whose brand it is can not have more than 800 ppm of ZDDP. Some do not even meet that level. Under SF it had 1,600 to 1,800. Each succeeding bump in the category SG SH etc more zddp came out of the concentration. The SM crossed the line from being adeuqate to now being on the short end of the stick. In a matter of speaking.

Adding to the problem is, zddp depletes at a faster level for the first 1,000 miles of driving....so if you start with 800 drive a 1,000 miles now you are really at the low end of zddp that you need when originally it was around 1,600 to 1,800 ppm.

Having a performance engine increases the problems, grand ma driving her V6 to church on sunday will never have an issue..... probably uses the cheapest gas and never hears her car knock either.

Years ago oil was supposed to be backwards compatible....as each new category came out. Blame the oil companies or the government the point remains if you have an engine with a flat tappet cam you care about you best be adding zddplus to be safe....wear happens gradually and translates into metal particules going somewhere.

Their is some very very smart people behind this product our company is simply the major marketing company because of our connections and experience in the automotive business and being a long time personal friend of Richard Clark.

Personally all my cars I add it to my 1994 and 1997 cars and it has eliminated the ticking in the valve train on a cold morning, even my 2000 Corvette, ....makes sense because even back in 1994 and 1997 oils had well over 800 ppm....of zddp in the oil.

Its because of new car warranties and emissions centered around the warranties on cataltyic converters having to go 120,000 miles or so. The claim is zddp can can coat the converter.

As for why it is not in stores.

We are trying with several national chains, but with the tough economic times etc until customers start asking for this product by name it is tough to get into any of the major chain stores. Plus we have no track record or other products in stores. Some chain stores do buy from us for independant run stores and speed shops etc.

However, in the aftermarket world we cover many of the big names:

Year One, Moss Motors, Mac Antiques, Clarks Corvar, Myers Studebaker, Casco T-Birds, Bill Hirsch, Engine & Performance Waheouse, Ecklers, National pars Depot, Corvette Central, to name a few. Even sell direct to a Lotus company.

It will happen. We have done quite well for only being available for less than 2 years time. While other solutions exist, ours is one of the easiest if not easiest since its only 4 ounces and you can use whatever oil you have been using.

Market is big enough for everyone over 10 million 1987 and back cars are registered in the US.

The choice is yours $10 you are gambling that we are wrong and you are right.
Problem is if you lose a cam its far more than $10 to correct the problem.

Neither Richard nor I recommend any oil over another. Just be certain to add ZDDPlus™

Remember the government does not really care about older cars....

The passion for them has to come from you the owner......

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Check out our tech briefs....they are far more technical in nature than what I have stated above. I have spoken at many national events for various clubs on this subject. The internet is full of forums about the topic. The solutions may vary but the topic is well covered as being an issue now recognized no matter what car/truck you own....at first companies even like Comp assumed it was simply a problem at break in only....break the cam in properly and you won't have any problems. not true.....neither is their current solution with what they offer to do to the cam.

The solution is simple. The decision to do it is one you have to make.
 
Glad I didn't bring zddp up with him then, I would feel horrible if I bought him some and it in some way affected the 100K warranty on his ZR1. At what point do you determine an engine design to be new enough not to need it? Like my '99 5.7 vortec or '03 Buick 3.8? Just wondering.

Don't take this the wrong way Dennis but, it seems that perhaps yourself and other vendors may have missed some opportunities to educate most of us on the ill affects of not running the correct amount of protective elements in our engines. Look at it this way, you have tough job ahead of you, most people don't care about endorsements you may have, Slick50 and "those" other oil additives had all kinds of people endorsing their product and sponsored some pretty big events. That's what you have to beat for your product to sell. I know you have some basic testimonials from people on your web site, more data and testing results made available to the public would go along way for your sales.

I would not have started this thread if I didn't think our engines need it. The STP product I mentioned has higher levels than most mainstream products. That's why I posted for people that need to save a buck or two or maybe need to start running something. Honestly, I never even knew about your product before your first post in this thread. IMO, it was more on the side of arrogance than taking advantage of an opportunity to educate and maybe obtain new customers but, hey if that's how you want to introduce your product, go ahead. You have some work ahead of you. It seems as though you are a paying vendor here? Why not sponsor a weekly Buick Regal trivia game and the prize is 6 or so bottles of your product. First correct post wins. Make it fun, like if you have problem XY or Z, what should you check first for diagnostics. Here is the first question "What are the major causes or low BLM or how to issolate the problem" I seriously need that answer....Members may actually tune in just to learn some things about our cars. Just a thought.


kirban 2 cents worth

You mention a trivia contest I have been running them under turbo lounge look under the thread numbers game it has never let the first page and already has over 9,000 hits in 5 weeks time. I focus on that thread and it has created a good buzz and winners of zddplus product. I have a lot of info to share based on 300 plus cars we have sold.

My trivia steers clear of most tech stuff engine related as that is a weak area of what I know. Weird me not being a motor head yet marketing a product such as ZDDPlus. One reason I went after the biggest companies in the field first. I realized to gain acceptance you had to lock in major companies.

Adding to the problem is the terrible economy and we introduced two winters ago.....not the best time of the year. We hit engine builders first as they realized the issues way before the public was aware of it. Originally the blame was put on poor quality cam shafts etc....

end of story

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com
 
You can do a search on this board on the Zddplus and find a lot of answers to your questions, because when Richard Clark was first introducing it he released numbers that were done by an independent lab. The lab done a blind study using Zddplus, STP, GM's EOS, and a number of other oil supplements sold at local parts stores.
The only supplement that even came close was GM's EOS (engine oil supplement) which GM was discontiuing due to emmissions and ZDDplus had almost twice the zinc and supplements needed to prolong the life of our cams. I think GM's EOS was selling for around $12-15 a bottle, but I can't remember. I went to all the local dealerships to try and get all they had before Richard released the Zddplus and they told me that anytime they had any, the race shops and machine shops bought it by the case as soon as they got it in. I think GM has released another EOS, but with even less zinc to meet emmissions standards.

Comparing ZDDplus to STP is like comparing a bottle of the octane booster that you can also purchase at the parts store to 110 race gas. I wouldn't want to turn the boost up on a bottle of that just because it's cheaper and easier. :confused:
 
kirban 2 cents worth

Good points brought up by Turbowife above. Concerning GM EOS its in a 12 ounce bottle if I recall and with weaker concentration levels. ZDDplus™ is only in a 4 ounce bottle. There is no way anyone can improve on this product period unless it was cheaper than $10 a bottle. Period.

In less than 2 years time this product now has tremendous creditbility among engine rebuilders that are familar with the product and using it.

The benefit with a turbo owner is the fact this has all been done by someone among us that has not only a passion for the cars but backs it up with his actions and generosity. Kirban Performance is merely the main marketing company behind it.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

Check the payouts zddplus™ will be paying out next week for TSA race class.
 
Comparing ZDDplus to STP is like comparing a bottle of the octane booster that you can also purchase at the parts store to 110 race gas. I wouldn't want to turn the boost up on a bottle of that just because it's cheaper and easier. :confused:


I don't think your math is correct on that one. Most octane boosters define 1 octane as .10% increase in octane. That means the product really only raises the true octane .5% or so. Are you saying that the STP product will only raise the total amount of zddp by .5%?

At what ratio for oil? At what point is the concentration for a 5qt oil change too much and cause even more of a negative affect on engine longevity? It is not all sunshine and unicorns with this stuff or they would not have removed it. Still, we have to have it. I'm not worried about my cat going bad, it's in it's safe resting spot...under my workbench:biggrin:
 
If you don't think it works, pretty simple. Do not use it.

Obviously many people know it works so they use it.


I rep for a VERY LARGE oil company that private labels many well known automotive oils thatare sold across the counter.

Including bidding the bi-annual rights to provide Johndeere (YES) , Kubota, Massy Ferguson etc their oils on that said companies label. I was just in their lab last week and asked the big dog in R/D his thoughts on zddp.

His answer was good enough to seal the deal for me in any Turbo Buick powered auto I will ever own.

Pretty Cheap insurance policy.
 
kirban 2 cents worth

On the above math becomes a real stumbling block when mixing something with something else because in some cases it can actually decrease the levels.

Adding to the issues is zddp depletes at a faster rater for the first 1,000 miles of driving.

ZDDPlus every drum prior to mixing in the 4 ounce bottle is checked to make sure concentration levels remain constant.

Double dose of zddplus is not going to increase its value to your engine. Our concentration is based on current SM oil having the allow 800ppm worked out in 4-6 quarts our bottle adds the necessary Zddp molecules to bring it back to 1,800 ppm. When the new oil comes out and less zddp is in it we can adjust that formula when needed.

In our bottle is very very high levels to make that jump to 1,800 in 5 quarts.
If you had your oil tested with our product in it it would prove our numbers.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com
 
If you don't think it works, pretty simple. Do not use it.

Obviously many people know it works so they use it.


I rep for a VERY LARGE oil company that private labels many well known automotive oils thatare sold across the counter.

Including bidding the bi-annual rights to provide Johndeere (YES) , Kubota, Massy Ferguson etc their oils on that said companies label. I was just in their lab last week and asked the big dog in R/D his thoughts on zddp.

His answer was good enough to seal the deal for me in any Turbo Buick powered auto I will ever own.

Pretty Cheap insurance policy.


kirban 2 cents worth

good post john.....long as readers don't I "paid" you to post that.

I can't fathom why it is so diffiicult to convince some turbo owners, when the fact is the person behind it has the largest collection of the cars. Plus the fact we sell direct to 4 cam companies all of which have been in business for well ove 40-50 years. ZDDP is not some new thing, what is new is the amounts they have been
taking out of the newer oil formulas.

The man behind it will be at the GS Nats. My sources tell me they will be putting it in Gallina/Freemans race car. That car is pretty much the top dog in 1/4 mile times in the Turbo Buick world.

This product eliminates the 'risk' factor. Dove Manufacturing used it in their ford engine on the last engine masters challenge, tore it down and everything inside was perfect. Year before they wiped a cam during the challenge. No other change.

I know its hard to believe that off the shelf oil you buy today is not good by itself for your turbo regal or any other older vehicle with a flat tappet cam.

Course 5 years ago if someone told you Pontiac would be no longer made and GM would be close to bankrupt, nobody would have believed that either....

I don't know all the answers, but again if you go to kirbanprformance.com home page come up click on customer support scroll down all the tech briefs on zddplus come up.

kirbanperformance.com

denniskirban@yahoo.com

if you are at the GS Nats next week stop by our vendor spot Richard Clark can answer any question you have on the product. The mans knowledge on this topic is way above mine....

This is the same product the GS Club sells even though they sometimes fail to call it by the proper name in their newsletter.
 
kirban 2 cents worth

good post john.....long as readers don't I "paid" you to post that.

Nobody listens to what I have to say anyway:biggrin:

Just my opinion only, no paid advertisement LOL:p
 
I don't think your math is correct on that one. Most octane boosters define 1 octane as .10% increase in octane. That means the product really only raises the true octane .5% or so. Are you saying that the STP product will only raise the total amount of zddp by .5%?

At what ratio for oil? At what point is the concentration for a 5qt oil change too much and cause even more of a negative affect on engine longevity? It is not all sunshine and unicorns with this stuff or they would not have removed it. Still, we have to have it. I'm not worried about my cat going bad, it's in it's safe resting spot...under my workbench:biggrin:
I think that Turbowife's comparison is one of making a choice of 2 different products and not one of mathematical values. (Welcome, Jennifer, Scott Lambert's better half, I'll bet). And I think that you (klrv6) should continue to use STP if that is what you wish to do. I will be switching over to ZDDP when I run out of GM EOS. I'm glad that we have people like Richard Clark and Dennis Kirban not only as members on the forum but also supporting suppliers to help us making decisions and designing products for our cars.
Thanks Dennis & Richard.
 
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