How much boost are you all runnin' on 93 octane?

Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
if i really knew how i'd be a millionair by now. :D

all i know is its a killer combo and paying attention to all details not just tossing parts at it.

btw. i have single steel shim head gaskets also so my compression is higher than normal ..:eek:

seems to me letting the exaust out the motor seems to help alot

and biggest thing you can do to avoid knock is avoid any oil from contaminating the intake charge therefore you see i dont have any pcv valve putting oil in my intake...just a slight bit of oil will drop the octane of fuel down majorly.

putting suit on now for the attack by guys who dont agree with doing away with pcv valve :)
for those who say the oil gets contaminated from not having one my motor is spotless inside and besides I think its cheaper to change the oil than buy a bandaid like alky or propane.


ps knock sensor works fine ..

dont try this at home...results most likely will vary :D
Click to expand...

Thanks for the insight. Food for thought. And very interesting

jojo
 
>The ERROR in the GN setup is the IAT/MAT is in the wrong place, so what should be done isn't.

In the wrong place for what? A Speed denisty system, sure, but to use the IAT for a MAF sensor trim like the stock system does? In that case it seems to makes sense to have it near the MAF sensor then, no?

TurboTR
 
Originally posted by TurboTR
>The ERROR in the GN setup is the IAT/MAT is in the wrong place, so what should be done isn't.

In the wrong place for what? A Speed denisty system, sure, but to use the IAT for a MAF sensor trim like the stock system does? In that case it seems to makes sense to have it near the MAF sensor then, no?
Click to expand...

With the IAT/MAT located where it is, works for the MAF trim. BUT, it's bogus for using to get the timing correction right.

This is why I keep menitoning the blow thru MAF and relocating the MAT to the upper plenum. Only complication is that you have to use a Translator Plus. But, that's a good thing tuning wise.

If anyone wants to run high boost all the time, meaning in all weather circumstances you have to have a CORRECT tune. that means having the fuel and timing correlated to what the engine is doing, and you just have to take your measurements close to an intake valve to get that.
 
There are a multitude of factors..the most predominant is having a car in perfect tune..

Plugs,wires,carbon buildup in chambers,oil contamination,injector firing,chip :)...its all one big puzzle..if you have a daily driver that gets a tuneup once in a while..then these results will not happen.

Tune..is more than fuel pressure and plugging in a different chip..

And no translator,relocated MAF,voodoo witch doctor will let you run on the edge of knock if your motor isnt clean inside...

I like the idea of not running a PCV..havent tried it, but will starting this weekend :)

And check my cam sensor setting :)
 
Originally posted by Razor

And no translator,relocated MAF,voodoo witch doctor will let you run on the edge of knock if your motor isnt clean inside...

I like the idea of not running a PCV..havent tried it, but will starting this weekend :)
Click to expand...

The purpose of the PCV system is to keep the oil cleaner, and less acidic.

A proper, oil vapor/ air seperator, is a good idea, rather then dismembering the PCV system.
 
In total agreement with ya Bruce :)

I use to run an oil filter in line with an electric vacuum pump ..Supercharged BBC..Every oil change I would change that filter too..cutting it open revealed all kinds of milky sludge..

Anyone make a small remote mount oil filter..thats easily/cheaply replaceable..I ran an FL1a oil filter on my previous car..was looking for something a lot smaller..And using an oil filter, no chance of popping it.

I've been running alky for a year now..I'm pulling off my plenum for an inspection this weekend..I'll see if the alky has been cleaning out the intake or??

Great post guys...keep it up :)
 
I like the idea of using a oil seperator. I have the proper AC PCV valve and still get oil in the plenum. I started using a Fram G3 filter in line and the oil still wicks through and into the plenum. I have been looking at a small oil/air seperator. I have not got to it yet.

Bad idea not to use a PCV valve. After time it will fill the engine full of junk. I have seen this first hand. It may be OK on a track only car but you need a PCV on a street car.
 
Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR


and biggest thing you can do to avoid knock is avoid any oil from contaminating the intake charge therefore you see i dont have any pcv valve putting oil in my intake...just a slight bit of oil will drop the octane of fuel down majorly.
Click to expand...

now let me get this straight. at 24# of boost you could get oil from the crank case to somehow enter the intake charge through the pcv?

Red, just think how much boost you could run on 93 octain with a power plate.....lol That would really be the record!
 
Originally posted by Chris Taylor
I like the idea of using a oil seperator. I have the proper AC PCV valve and still get oil in the plenum. I started using a Fram G3 filter in line and the oil still wicks through and into the plenum. I have been looking at a small oil/air seperator. I have not got to it yet.

Bad idea not to use a PCV valve. After time it will fill the engine full of junk. I have seen this first hand. It may be OK on a track only car but you need a PCV on a street car.
Click to expand...

one question for you guys that are getting alot of oil in the plenum from the pcv.. Are you using a valley pan under the intake manifold? (like the stock steel intake manifold gaskets)
 
Originally posted by Race Jace
now let me get this straight. at 24# of boost you could get oil from the crank case to somehow enter the intake charge through the pcv?

Red, just think how much boost you could run on 93 octain with a power plate.....lol That would really be the record!
Click to expand...

my car is driven on the street daily when not in the garage getting worked on and driven to the track for those that think its a race car..I'll be driving it to MIR this sunday to run it and thats a 2 1/2 hour trip from here.. :)

not the fact that it would get oil while in boost even ...

even under normal driving conditions you are sucking air from the crankcase..you do not have to suck oil in you are suckin contaminated air period...

ok ...if you paint something say in your garage you dont snort the paint but what do you get when you blow your nose afterwards?

thats right you get paint in your nose...
same thing with oil inside the crankcase..picture the oil draining down in the block first it gets tossed around by the cam then it hits the crank and rods that are spinning so fast you cant even see it with the naked eye.. so whats that do to it ..it breaks it up into a mist all inside your motor...question is how do you seperate the mist from the air before its sucked into your t/b by the pcv valve??
it wont be easy..even if you filter it then what happens once the filter is wet with oil? you pulling in air with oil in it again.

I dont get any condesation build up in my motor and there isnt a drop of sludge in it.

another important factor is valve seals on the intake side..you must mave a good seal on them and ones that fit tight on the guide or you risk the chance of boost pressure going up the valve stem and pushing the seal off the guide boss.. I actually glue my seals to the guide bosses when I install them... low boost guys need not worry..:)

oil getting into the intake stream is the worst enemy you can have on a high compression or boosted motor

someone else mentioned carbon buildup in the chambers again have you ever cleaned carbon off a piston ... notice its kinda oily..hummmm

in mine the combustion chambers and piston tops are polished to mirror finish to resist carbon sticking,any hotspots from rough casting and also aids in reflecting the energy (heat) back into combustion instead of being absorbed into the metal.

boy I hope some of this makes sence

oh..about the power plate....great idea for the norm because the intake charge is a lil wacky in these motors and im well aware of that and was in mind when any and all port work was done in my intake and heads themselves..;)

if we happen to run into each other one day i'll be happy to pull all six plugs and see if you can find one running richer or leaner than the others..:cool: just another of them details..

I realize it dont take but one cylinder to be off tune from the others to get knock in that cylinder and blow a gasket or break something..its a good balance of moving injectors around to different cylinders and maybe alil more mouth to a certain runner in the intake till you can get them burning evenly..

sounds like a lot of trouble because it is... but all the lil details add up to a happy motor which transfers to a happy owner
 
I cranked mine up to 19 on Sunoco 94 using Jay Carter adjustable timing chip. Got 2 knock counts. Jays chip had alot to do with it since he takes timing out as the boost goes up.
 
Originally posted by Race Jace
one question for you guys that are getting alot of oil in the plenum from the pcv.. Are you using a valley pan under the intake manifold? (like the stock steel intake manifold gaskets)
Click to expand...

As above..the oil comes from regular driving not racing..when in vacuum..


REDS HOT AIR,I use ro run a clear hose on my vacuum pump and had no oil in its line..The filter would capture it all 100 percent.I was using an FL1a filter in line with the pump.It was mounted on a remote mount oil filter assy.Cheap and easy.My valve cover had a bung on it.

:)
 
Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR

even under normal driving conditions you are sucking air from the crankcase..you do not have to suck oil in you are suckin contaminated air period...

oil getting into the intake stream is the worst enemy you can have on a high compression or boosted motor

someone else mentioned carbon buildup in the chambers again have you ever cleaned carbon off a piston ... notice its kinda oily..hummmm
in mine the combustion chambers and piston tops are polished to mirror finish to resist carbon sticking,any hotspots from rough casting and also aids in reflecting the energy (heat) back into combustion instead of being absorbed into the metal.

I realize it dont take but one cylinder to be off tune from the others to get knock in that cylinder and blow a gasket or break something...

sounds like a lot of trouble because it is... but all the lil details add up to a happy motor which transfers to a happy owner
Click to expand...

Yepper.
Water Injection helps to keep things clean.
It ususally is one cylinder out of whack that leads to trouble.
Details, yep.
 
In the wrong place for what? A Speed denisty system, sure, but to use the IAT for a MAF sensor trim like the stock system does? In that case it seems to makes sense to have it near the MAF sensor then, no?

The stock MAF and MAT combination works well where it is. If the MAF is moved to a location downstream of the turbo, the pressure variations will result in density variations WAY beyond the design range of the instrument. Moving the MAT with it would seem logical, but would still not work, because of the limited range. The density variation with temperature is MUCH less than that which would result from pressure changes of 20 psi. I have no idea what the design range of the Chevy MAF is, but I would be surprised if it is designed for a density variation of 2 or 3 to one.
Moving the MAF, in theory, will help throttle response, but since there is only one MAF, and six cylinders, it is still an "average" flow. If you're going to reduce duty cycle, by the way, why not go below 50%? Then the injector will only function during the intake stroke?
The "buzzing" from static injectors is simple. Think about it. Just before static, the "dwell time" is not enough for the injectors to fully open/close. Instead, they will cycle from almost open to open, back to almost open, they never really close. Sounds funny, don't know if it hurts the injector though.
PCV was introduced to cut down on smog. Old cars with blowby have a cloud that follows them, unburned hydrocarbons blown through and out fthe crankcase. The PCV routes this junk back into the engine, where it might burn. (or maybe not) First attempt was just to route crankcase vent back to the air cleaner- boy what a mess! The PCV valve routed it directly to the intake manifold, where it wasn't as obvious of a mess.
 
Red, I tried running without a PCV in the winter in PA, outside Philly, and had white milky condensation and after a few weeks some rust, on the inside of the fill cap on the valve cover. My commute was only 1.5 miles each way so lots of days I never really, really warmed everything up to help dry it out. I went to my current setup which seems to work really well. Remove the stock metal lines for pcv and boost. Start with a stock cv893c pcv valve, then put a Fram G3 fuel filter on top of that using one of the tubing pieces that come with the filter - that spaces it up on top of the fuel rail and the filter is almost clear so you can see any oil buildup. The filter element condenses the oil vapor and it drains back into the valley through the pcv valve. Then I use the other hose stub to go to a check valve, then a short piece of 3/8" fuel injection hose to go to the doghouse fitting. I use one of those funky tees with both sidearms pointing the same way to run a piece of vacuum hose from the boost port down to the hard plastic line for the map sensor and to connect my boost gauge. Make sure the check valve has a negligible cracking pressure so you still get full flow through the pcv. I use one from Cole-Parmer (about $15) that works great but only has 5/16" barbs since they didn't have a bigger one. Clamp it well. This keeps the inside of the doghouse very clean and the check valve protects the filter and pcv valve from boost.
 
Maybe that is part of the high boost on pump gas thing. I meticulously cleaned my intercooler, ported my heads and lower intake kinda like Red described. More in the front (1,2) a little less in the middle (3,4) and even less in the rear (5,6).

Before this, I was limited to 16-17psi too. Afterwards, I got 22 on the stock turbo and run 20 all the time now. I decided to turn on the alky the other day and get serious about the boost since the motor has GOT to be broken in by now.

Hey Red, I will be there Sunday too. I probably have the only yellow ttype in the area so just look for the yellow T with the FP gauge on the hood.

PCV??? What is that? My car hasn't had a functioning one since I owned it.;) ;)
 
Originally posted by REDS HOT AIR
my car is driven on the street daily when not in the garage getting worked on and driven to the track for those that think its a race car..I'll be driving it to MIR this sunday to run it and thats a 2 1/2 hour trip from here.. :)

not the fact that it would get oil while in boost even ...

even under normal driving conditions you are sucking air from the crankcase..you do not have to suck oil in you are suckin contaminated air period...

ok ...if you paint something say in your garage you dont snort the paint but what do you get when you blow your nose afterwards?

thats right you get paint in your nose...
same thing with oil inside the crankcase..picture the oil draining down in the block first it gets tossed around by the cam then it hits the crank and rods that are spinning so fast you cant even see it with the naked eye.. so whats that do to it ..it breaks it up into a mist all inside your motor...question is how do you seperate the mist from the air before its sucked into your t/b by the pcv valve??
it wont be easy..even if you filter it then what happens once the filter is wet with oil? you pulling in air with oil in it again.

I dont get any condesation build up in my motor and there isnt a drop of sludge in it.

another important factor is valve seals on the intake side..you must mave a good seal on them and ones that fit tight on the guide or you risk the chance of boost pressure going up the valve stem and pushing the seal off the guide boss.. I actually glue my seals to the guide bosses when I install them... low boost guys need not worry..:)

oil getting into the intake stream is the worst enemy you can have on a high compression or boosted motor

someone else mentioned carbon buildup in the chambers again have you ever cleaned carbon off a piston ... notice its kinda oily..hummmm

in mine the combustion chambers and piston tops are polished to mirror finish to resist carbon sticking,any hotspots from rough casting and also aids in reflecting the energy (heat) back into combustion instead of being absorbed into the metal.

boy I hope some of this makes sence

oh..about the power plate....great idea for the norm because the intake charge is a lil wacky in these motors and im well aware of that and was in mind when any and all port work was done in my intake and heads themselves..;)

if we happen to run into each other one day i'll be happy to pull all six plugs and see if you can find one running richer or leaner than the others..:cool: just another of them details..

I realize it dont take but one cylinder to be off tune from the others to get knock in that cylinder and blow a gasket or break something..its a good balance of moving injectors around to different cylinders and maybe alil more mouth to a certain runner in the intake till you can get them burning evenly..

sounds like a lot of trouble because it is... but all the lil details add up to a happy motor which transfers to a happy owner
Click to expand...

so basically you can do away with the pcv valve setup completely even if it's a daily street driven car? do you just plug up that hole on the manifold? this causes no harm to your car but helps it with not throwing oil in the TB? because i AWLAYS have oil in my TB no matter how many times i clean it...i also get oil in the intercooler and hoses often...is it because of the pcv setup? if i get more convinced on this subject i may just do away with the pcv setup as well...
 
it is not a great idea to remove the pcv on a daily driven car.....a check valve in line with the pcv should help

that said, I do not have a pcv valve on my car but it is driven only to the track & back and I change the oil & filter at least monthly...if I were driving it more, I would put the pcv back in and use a check valve
 
Crazi : thats cool im trying to work some stuff out on my car so hopefully i can get the clean pass i want...can dont seem to want a 2004r in it but trying to get tranny strait now...i'll be there either way (white ttype on weld superlites)

d0n_3d : if you have oil in the i/c and plumbing you need to check the turbo side of the i/c and if its oily over there then it has to be coming from turbo seal if you already did away with the hose to the valve cover :(


Im not trying to say you need to get rid of the pcv but if you want to keep the intake oil free it will have to be filtered well like ijames setup which seems to be working for him but for me i wont be running one on my motor.. everyone does things differently
 
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