ok one more lil question too? Can I just port my stock iron heads or should I just buy the champion ones and put those on or do the champions have to be ported too? Also shold i keep the stock cam in with the heads or get an after market one? 206/206?
How much to go 10's $2699
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strikeeagle
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Champion ported irons ARE stock heads that Champion has ported.
But, like I told you, plan on about $3,500 for heads, a little cam, gaskets, pulling and reinstalling the motor, etc. Oh, and 2 days in the shop...
But, like I told you, plan on about $3,500 for heads, a little cam, gaskets, pulling and reinstalling the motor, etc. Oh, and 2 days in the shop...
J
JCotton
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cam and heads are easily done without pulling the motor or the radiator. 
strikeeagle
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So Jack,
Let me ask the same ??? of you.
I come to you with a low miles GN that has never had the motor out and I want a set of Champion irons.
What do I get, and what does it cost?
Remember, this motor has never been out - rope seals, stock timing chain, you name it...
Let me ask the same ??? of you.
I come to you with a low miles GN that has never had the motor out and I want a set of Champion irons.
What do I get, and what does it cost?
Remember, this motor has never been out - rope seals, stock timing chain, you name it...
J
JCotton
Guest
Looks like someone is trying to paint me into a corner, kinda like changing the topic............ don't see any benefit to play with that, I'll just say the next time you are in the area and are interested in having your bone stock original, low mileage GN have a set of Champ irons installed, let me know. I'll be happy to spend the time giving you a quote and recommending the proper supporting upgrades. I shared my experience from the standpoint of a guy that has been there and done that. Not trying to step on anyone toes.
lets play nice,
I shared my experience from the standpoint of a guy that has been there and done that. Not trying to step on anyone toes.lets play nice,
strikeeagle
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Jack,
I wasn't trying to paint you into a corner. Rather, thinking man that you are, I expected you'd respond just as you did.
To me, this thread is about the perception some folks have that you can go 10s for a couple large. THAT PERCEPTION IS SO, SO TIRED!!!
Yeah, you can take a car with stock heads and beat the snot out of it. But as a practical matter (if you care about your car, and don't think 20 PSI launches and 35 PSI through the traps constitutes reasonable operation) you really do need heads.
Now, when you sign up for heads, you sign up for lots of other stuff as well. As you know, it hardly stops at the $1,200 or whatever Champion irons cost these days.
The TR community is especially enamoured with the notion that these cars can go 12, 11, 10, 9, whatever for little or nothing. Yet, we all have boxes full of receipts. Go figure???
Peace.
I wasn't trying to paint you into a corner. Rather, thinking man that you are, I expected you'd respond just as you did.
To me, this thread is about the perception some folks have that you can go 10s for a couple large. THAT PERCEPTION IS SO, SO TIRED!!!
Yeah, you can take a car with stock heads and beat the snot out of it. But as a practical matter (if you care about your car, and don't think 20 PSI launches and 35 PSI through the traps constitutes reasonable operation) you really do need heads.
Now, when you sign up for heads, you sign up for lots of other stuff as well. As you know, it hardly stops at the $1,200 or whatever Champion irons cost these days.
The TR community is especially enamoured with the notion that these cars can go 12, 11, 10, 9, whatever for little or nothing. Yet, we all have boxes full of receipts. Go figure???
Peace.
J
JCotton
Guest
Thank you, you are absolutely correct............ it's not cheap to get there safely, I learned long ago as that was exactly what I was going to do, turn up the boost to a stupid level, try to hook it up with an insane launch and hope I could make it to the other end before something broke...... 
At the last moment, I decided I didn't need to impress anyone or make a name for myself by doing something ONCE........... all the parts were on the shelf, so we spent 3 days, day and nite installing everything along with a 6 point rollcage. After doing the math of what it took 1 guy to achieve the 10's with a stock motor, including a summers worth of going to the track, tuning at the dyno, race fuel, broken parts, I decided to build a combo that allowed me to get there without spending all the money tuning, tweak and replacing broken stock parts........... By the way, I had almost the exact combo as V8killer when I was going to attempt 10's. I had already run 11.30's and knew I just needed to turn the boost up a little more, "like 30lbs" and hook a little better.......... I'm happy to say, common sense set in before I wasted a lot of money. No doubt it cost me money, but at least I didn't waste it. Going fast "ain't" cheap, spend your money wisely and thoughtfully on your combo and you'll never regret it.
hope that helps,
At the last moment, I decided I didn't need to impress anyone or make a name for myself by doing something ONCE........... all the parts were on the shelf, so we spent 3 days, day and nite installing everything along with a 6 point rollcage. After doing the math of what it took 1 guy to achieve the 10's with a stock motor, including a summers worth of going to the track, tuning at the dyno, race fuel, broken parts, I decided to build a combo that allowed me to get there without spending all the money tuning, tweak and replacing broken stock parts........... By the way, I had almost the exact combo as V8killer when I was going to attempt 10's. I had already run 11.30's and knew I just needed to turn the boost up a little more, "like 30lbs" and hook a little better.......... I'm happy to say, common sense set in before I wasted a lot of money. No doubt it cost me money, but at least I didn't waste it. Going fast "ain't" cheap, spend your money wisely and thoughtfully on your combo and you'll never regret it. hope that helps,
I think alot of people are assuming that i think i can actually runs tens or at least hit that number a few times with just the stuff I listed or for a few large. Maybe i should have stated a few large and then some. Maybe i didnt state that but that stuff includes what I already have in my signiture. I have a good I/C, converter on top of all the basic bolt on mods. So now what you think.
How much would it normally run to have someone put the heads and cam in my car? Is it a hard job or no?
How much would it normally run to have someone put the heads and cam in my car? Is it a hard job or no?
JC's right on here. One point I would like to add: Hardly anyone builds a 10 second combo then goes right out and runs 10's. It still takes tuning, and not just motor, but chassis. I spend well over $100 every trip to the track, and thats if it don't break! Race fuel, truck fuel, food, entry fee, not to mention wear on your slicks and stuff. It may take a few trips even with a stout combo to reach your goals. Maintenance costs go way up too with faster times. No disrespect here, but financially, I think you may be out of your league. If you talk to some of the really fast guys, many of them consider their own cars to have been more fun when they were running 11's, because they were more reliable, broke less, cost less, and could be enjoyed on the street more. Spend a couple bucks in the right places, and enjoy the car and quit streesing about running 10's or whatever. If you don't go to the track much anyway, it really doesn't matter. Anything faster than high 11's on the street is not going to hook up. Do you run into 10 second street cars on the way to work? I don't. Hell, I haven't even been beat in my stock lightning yet.
One more thing. A billet roller cam is not required. If you're worried about losing lobes, use one of the new iron rollers, they are about $600 with lifters, all you'll need is pushrods and capable springs. And ported heads can be bought for about half what you're planning to spend on Champions.
One more thing. A billet roller cam is not required. If you're worried about losing lobes, use one of the new iron rollers, they are about $600 with lifters, all you'll need is pushrods and capable springs. And ported heads can be bought for about half what you're planning to spend on Champions.
Yeah i know trying to o fast cheap doesnt work, but i know guys have gone 10's economically with out half the stuff people say you need. Your right i drive my car ont he street more than anything and will. I just like to be able to runa respectable number at the track and low, low 11 or 10 is good enough for me but i wishing on a star for that 10 sec pass. Your right I know it cot money to go fast !Unfortunately I have a house I purchasing so thats why im stuck on this dollar amount. SAd I know I only have a few grnd maybe three to spend at the most but im trying to get some honest opinions from you guys. And I appreciate everyones input and honesty regarding this matter. Thats why i luv this board, everyone has some good opinions and view points and understanding of what it takes, cuz alot of you have been their done that. Well like i said more comments are welcome.
What ported heads can be purchased for half less than Champions? Stock Iron ported? Id like to know?
i am trying to run low 10`s high 9`s
here is my setup. i am still putting the car together.
T71 ball bearing three bolt turbo $500.00 (use)
champion R head 2.02/1.60 $1900
je piston ($525)
crowler rods ($920)
four billet main cap with girdle(800)
3800 stall convertor($500)
turbo 400 ($800)
ford 9" moser rear end ($1200)
roller cam ($500)
MPE intercooler ($1000)
i had the block block shot peen for 30 minutes. install bronze lining in the lifter bore. the bore of the block is 3.820. i am also looking to go with the 16 position MaxEffort digital fuel management.
i still have to get slicks, rear end control arm, fuel pump, header with complete exhaust system and i am miss a few stuff
thank god i am doing all the work my self. right now the car is complete apart. i am doing a few rust removal.
here is my setup. i am still putting the car together.
T71 ball bearing three bolt turbo $500.00 (use)
champion R head 2.02/1.60 $1900
je piston ($525)
crowler rods ($920)
four billet main cap with girdle(800)
3800 stall convertor($500)
turbo 400 ($800)
ford 9" moser rear end ($1200)
roller cam ($500)
MPE intercooler ($1000)
i had the block block shot peen for 30 minutes. install bronze lining in the lifter bore. the bore of the block is 3.820. i am also looking to go with the 16 position MaxEffort digital fuel management.
i still have to get slicks, rear end control arm, fuel pump, header with complete exhaust system and i am miss a few stuff
thank god i am doing all the work my self. right now the car is complete apart. i am doing a few rust removal.
i know but you have too understand i LOVE CARS (American cars)
i fight with my GF all the time about my cars. so i keep telling her "you met me with my cars and you will lever me with my car". i don`t know how we stood together for 5 yrs. and still going strong.
i love my cars and then i love my Girlfriend.
i can tell you one think listen to Jack cotton. he have help me alot and he really know his stuff. i see doing lots of business with him in the future.
thank you JACK for answering all my DUMB question.
i fight with my GF all the time about my cars. so i keep telling her "you met me with my cars and you will lever me with my car". i don`t know how we stood together for 5 yrs. and still going strong.
i love my cars and then i love my Girlfriend.
i can tell you one think listen to Jack cotton. he have help me alot and he really know his stuff. i see doing lots of business with him in the future.
thank you JACK for answering all my DUMB question.
salvageV6
Daily Driver
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- May 25, 2001
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I think the install labor was priced at around $600 the last time this thread came up.
10-12 hours shop labor.
Can't see why adding another flat tappet cam would cost too much more on the labor side, have to add the parts prices however.
Not cheap but lots of work too.
2 day install minimum.
10-12 hours shop labor.
Can't see why adding another flat tappet cam would cost too much more on the labor side, have to add the parts prices however.
Not cheap but lots of work too.
2 day install minimum.
boostedLC2
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Like Stang and TD231 said it's all in the tuning. If you're going to run in the 10's with a stock motor you have to be conservative on timing and run ZERO knock. I haven't broken a single part yet (knock on wood) and I attribute that to never accepting any detonation.
If you're trying to build a bracket car that you race every weekend you probably want the go fast parts but if it's a toy that just sees the occasional trip to the track you can get the stock motor there with the proper tuning.
On the rear suspension, my personal experience is that stiffening up the lower control arms helps but you don't really need much more than that. I put Camaro 1LE lowers on mine (unboxed) and have a right side air bag that I don't even use any more but that's it!
Jim
Six_Silver
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I dont think the numbers people are posting are realistic.
(these are rough estimates only)
For someone who wants to run 10.99 one time, you can get away with the following:
Walbro 340- 100
hot wire kit - 50
50lb injectors - 300
chip - 50
k&n filter - 30
61 turbo - 700
THDP- 400
stock loc intercooler - 700
port stock intake - 150
ported stock heads - 800
cam, lifters, timing set - 300
torque convertor - 400
air bag for suspension - 25
slicks - 300
That right there is over $3800 in parts.
For someone who wants to run in the 10's constantly, it will require a lot more:
Double pumper 500
big injectors 300
ECM mod 150
chip 100
LS1 MAF 100
MAF translator 250
solid MAF pipe and hoses 100
k&n 30
63 turbo 900
intercooler 800
port stock intake 150
ported stock heads 800
scanmaster 250
direct scan 250
good trans rebuild for 200: 2000
suspension parts/sway bar: 700
To run faster than that, realistically you would add:
ATR headers 600
GN1 alum heads 2000
billet roller cam 1000
FAST 1800
t400 and necessary parts to convert: 1000
convertor for 400: 800
You people need to sit down and put this stuff on paper and add it all up. Im not denying that anyone on this board cant do it for cheaper, but in an average situation, this would be more accurate.
just my 2 cents (from someone who has been there, done that)
(these are rough estimates only)
For someone who wants to run 10.99 one time, you can get away with the following:
Walbro 340- 100
hot wire kit - 50
50lb injectors - 300
chip - 50
k&n filter - 30
61 turbo - 700
THDP- 400
stock loc intercooler - 700
port stock intake - 150
ported stock heads - 800
cam, lifters, timing set - 300
torque convertor - 400
air bag for suspension - 25
slicks - 300
That right there is over $3800 in parts.
For someone who wants to run in the 10's constantly, it will require a lot more:
Double pumper 500
big injectors 300
ECM mod 150
chip 100
LS1 MAF 100
MAF translator 250
solid MAF pipe and hoses 100
k&n 30
63 turbo 900
intercooler 800
port stock intake 150
ported stock heads 800
scanmaster 250
direct scan 250
good trans rebuild for 200: 2000
suspension parts/sway bar: 700
To run faster than that, realistically you would add:
ATR headers 600
GN1 alum heads 2000
billet roller cam 1000
FAST 1800
t400 and necessary parts to convert: 1000
convertor for 400: 800
You people need to sit down and put this stuff on paper and add it all up. Im not denying that anyone on this board cant do it for cheaper, but in an average situation, this would be more accurate.
just my 2 cents (from someone who has been there, done that)
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