Is it better to recharge the AC with R12 or convert to R134?

[jretrodude]

Having a hard time in my area finding someone who still has access to R12? If I switch to R134 how much should I be spending that's the norm and what is involved with switching any parts or anything out? I was quoted about 300 to 400 dollars to convert over and recharge? And my mechanic said I would need a new pump or dryer?

 

[TurboDave]

See if you can find someone who has freeze12. It works better than both, and is designed for R12 systems.

 

[joe_schindler]

This last Buick was empty when I bought it; so I changed the accumulator and orifice; evacuated and filled with Freeze 12.

Changed my 78 GMC truck over about 10 years ago when I had to fix an O ring. Evacuated and filled with R134. Didn’t even change the oil. I just used an adapter from the 134 can to the 12 gauges. Can’t recommend everyone doing it that way; but worked till I pulled it all off to convert from carburetor to fuel injection earlier this year. NO I’M NOT DONE YET; WHAT’S IT TO YOU!

Can’t say which one really worked best as they both worked well enough.

Did it my self; so the cost was low. Buick was about $50, and truck was about $15; for parts and Freon.

 

[turbo nasty]

R134 in 80's GM's dont do so well w/134 conversions.
Stick with R12 if you have deep pockets otherwise use Freeze 12

 

[ronbuick]

R-12 is best, other wise freeze 12 or similar product, you must remember if you have a minor leak, you can not just gas it up like you can with R12, cause the freeze12 is a compound of 3 items and also must be charge as a liquid to keep the compound all together as it is induced, what I do on 1 of my old Buicks that has a minor leak,, I just bleed enought off so I still have just enough positive pressure in the system and no air in the system, and gas and go, HTH

Ron

 

[ronbuick]

R-12 is best, other wise freeze 12 or similar product, you must remember if you have a minor leak, you can not just gas it up like you can with R12, cause the freeze12 is a compound of 3 items and also must be charge as a liquid to keep the compound all together as it is induced, what I do on 1 of my old Buicks that has a minor leak,, I just bleed enought off so I still have just enough positive pressure in the system and no air in the system, and gas and go, HTH

Ron

 

[49-blues]

Another option is 414B called Hot Shot-capatable with R12 & 134A-direct drop in - no oil change- colder than R12.

 

[blipmode188]

r-12

Having a hard time in my area finding someone who still has access to R12? If I switch to R134 how much should I be spending that's the norm and what is involved with switching any parts or anything out? I was quoted about 300 to 400 dollars to convert over and recharge? And my mechanic said I would need a new pump or dryer?

I just went thru this.
My car was way down.
Apparently, all you AC guys understand this, but mine was at around 10lbs and it should have been around 300 lbs?
Anyway since it hadnt been charged for sometime it was a risk.
The guy said if he starts charging it and begins to hear knocking and grinding etc. he stops.
Charges what it cost so far to fill it and thats it.
Also since not being charged for quite a while the seals may or may not hold.

To make a long story short, he charged it with the r-12 and that thing so far is COLD COLD COLD.

He also shot some dye in it and in about a month I am supposed to take it back to see if a leak can be found.

I am only going by what he said only.
If you can afford r-12 it is the best for the older cars
The others may be cheaper but he did say stay away from the FREZZE stuff for what it is worth.

Good luck
Steve

 

[charlief1]

What blues said but please don't use Freeze12. It is mostly R-134 and the oil will not stay mixed with the refridgerant. Been there done that and ate my compressor. I found this out afterwards while trying to find out what happened. Did a lot of searching and I will never use it again.

 

[blipmode188]

ac

Having a hard time in my area finding someone who still has access to R12? If I switch to R134 how much should I be spending that's the norm and what is involved with switching any parts or anything out? I was quoted about 300 to 400 dollars to convert over and recharge? And my mechanic said I would need a new pump or dryer?

PS Forgot to say the cost was $188 with 3lbs r-12 ouch
Steve

 

[aminga]

An R-134a charge done properly by gauge pressure and none of this 85% of the R-12 charge will cool just as cold as R-12. The only downside in my conversion is it doesn't reach max cold as quickly as the R-12 system did. A change of evaporator would fix that problem.

 

[turboc87gn]

An R-134a charge done properly by gauge pressure and none of this 85% of the R-12 charge will cool just as cold as R-12. The only downside in my conversion is it doesn't reach max cold as quickly as the R-12 system did. A change of evaporator would fix that problem.

Dude just buy the 134 conversion kit from autozone it has the schrader valve tool and the screw on adapters all you gotta do is remove the schrader valve from ur dryer as long as its already empty... screw on the r134 adapter and add an oil charge and fill it with r134 ive done at least 10 cars my buick being one of them and never had a problem the kit is like 20 bucks and whatever the r134 costs some may say it dosent get cold as fast or as cold yada yada yada but to me it works fine it gets cold enought that i have to turn it down if its on full blast on a 90 degree day which is plenty cold enough for me....my car has been in the garage for two years and i didnt check the air when i started it up a month ago but i did the conversion years ago..Some of the people i did it for are friends and parents of friends that are old and picky and noone has called and complained yet so idk pick ur poison.....

 

[GNX243]

R-12

R-12 on eBay runs about $22 + postage for a 12 or 14oz can. As I understand it, the R-12 (CFC) molecule is larger than the R-134 and is less prone to leaks. I still have the original charge....tested it with an accurate thermometer last week and it was blowing at 34 degrees with an 80 degree outside temperature. Compare costs and keep in mind the system was designed for R-12 and works best that way.

 

[aminga]

Dude just buy the 134 conversion kit from autozone it has the schrader valve tool and the screw on adapters all you gotta do is remove the schrader valve from ur dryer as long as its already empty... screw on the r134 adapter and add an oil charge and fill it with r134 ive done at least 10 cars my buick being one of them and never had a problem the kit is like 20 bucks and whatever the r134 costs some may say it dosent get cold as fast or as cold yada yada yada but to me it works fine it gets cold enought that i have to turn it down if its on full blast on a 90 degree day which is plenty cold enough for me....my car has been in the garage for two years and i didnt check the air when i started it up a month ago but i did the conversion years ago..Some of the people i did it for are friends and parents of friends that are old and picky and noone has called and complained yet so idk pick ur poison.....

Dude, Did you notice I was agreeing with you.

On all but the vatozone part

 

[turboc87gn]

Dude, Did you notice I was agreeing with you.

On all but the vatozone part

Yea i noticed but i clicked quote by accident and realized it after lol my bad:biggrin:

 

[Dr.drivability]

An R-134a charge done properly by gauge pressure and none of this 85% of the R-12 charge will cool just as cold as R-12. The only downside in my conversion is it doesn't reach max cold as quickly as the R-12 system did. A change of evaporator would fix that problem.

Install a new drier, ford blue orface, and 85% of the R12 charge w/ 134 and call it a day!!!! This works great on all old g-body's----From my experience!!!

 

[Dr.drivability]

Install a new drier, ford blue orface, and 85% of the R12 charge w/ 134 and call it a day!!!! This works great on all old g-body's----From my experience!!!

Oh yeah, 8oz of pag150!!

 

[lucky14]

Here is another link

http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/general-turbo-buick-tech/279754-r-12-134a-c-conversion.html


As others posted on it.

I converted my G ride from R12 (my cost near $40 a lbs.) to 134 just because of the cost and likely that I would devlop other leaks with time.

For example was going to recharge the system with R12 when the compressor took a dump after pulling my GN out of the barn it was in. So with a new compressor in hand- I retrofitted it.

A proper retrofit is NOT a sharder valve swap. You need a new accumulator, orfice tube, sharders, flush chemicals to flush out the esther oil and new PAG oil, o-rings and r134a and dye.

r134a will cool acceptable but not as good as r12. As the boiling points are different. Therefore, the heat exchangers (condensor and evaporator) are calculated for the r12 boil/evap. temps and pressures. You could install and oversized condensor with a pusher fan to help the pressure change.... thats the most commmon upgrade.

See the link above for more indepth info.

 

[8UWITH6]

Did mine last month in the WE4. Got tired of pumping cans of R12 in the car. R12 was cold, but my conversion is cold enough for daily duty.

I replaced the orifice, dryer, vacuumed system down 3 times (dont ask), added 1 can of oil, and charged 2.6 lbs of R134a into the car. On a 95-100 degree day, stopped at idle, 190 engine temp, it blows 55-60 degrees. Which is great considering anything 30 degrees below ambient is acceptable. Going down the highway I was seeing 48-50 degrees. Not bad.

Added dual flex-a-lite fans to the car, dropped my engine temps 15 degrees, and AC blows 42-45 degrees on the highway, 50 around town. Works for me!!

Something I will add to this............ my experience is that the car seems to yield lower temperatures at the center vent on the 3rd blower motor setting. If I kick it up on high it doesnt blow as cold. I think this relates to comments above about the evaporator efficiency with the retro-fit. All in all it works out just fine, and I no longer have to worry about where Im going to find 4 cans of R12, let alone how much I have to pay for them. HTH

 

[scot w.]

For what it's worth RB276 refrigerant is a direct drop in for R12 & 134a systems. RB 276 Does NOT require an oil change either and has better cooling properties than R12! I put this in both of TurboDave's cars and my old GN and now my white T Type and IT IS COOLD!! Most company's that do residential / commercial A/C work should know what this is and more than likely will have it.

Pull a full vacuum and make sure it holds (no leaks) and then weigh back in the charge and you should be all set to go.


SW.