Well, I heard a little info today that bothered me since i am setting my car up for E85. There is supposed to be an Ethonal plant being built here locally and since I am an union electrician, we are pretty excited for this to be built. It would create a TON of jobs! Anyways, they said today that they are posponing the construction because there is a government mandate slowing the production of Ethonal due to corn prices. Is this true?
Is it true???
- Thread starter jdpolzin
- Start date
I haven't heard anything about a government mandate for slower production due to corn prices.
Where did you get this information? How credible is it?
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2002
I can tell you that construction of several plants has been halted in Kansas and Nebraska do to the commodity prices being so hi.
They did all the dirt work at a plant By Concordia Kansas and quit construction.
Also a couple in Nebraska.....................I do not think it was a government mandate, just to high crop prices....
They did all the dirt work at a plant By Concordia Kansas and quit construction.
Also a couple in Nebraska.....................I do not think it was a government mandate, just to high crop prices....
Yes, I believe it's more of a "plant by plant, business by business" decision to press on, or not.
Definately not a credible resource but a very knowledgeable resource in the construction industry around here. I hope they dont slow making Ethonal personally. Why would they do that when gas prices are so high anyways? I would think it would help balance things out by having alternative fuel sources?
Brer Rabbit
Pursuit Specialist
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2005
Hey Jer..
I heard that the corn used for the fuel is not suited for human consumption, but is way cheaper for farmers to produce so they are flooding the market with it driving the prices up. If that is true maybe what U heard is the Governments way of slowing down the production in an effort to keep a cap on production.
I heard that the corn used for the fuel is not suited for human consumption, but is way cheaper for farmers to produce so they are flooding the market with it driving the prices up. If that is true maybe what U heard is the Governments way of slowing down the production in an effort to keep a cap on production.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
the government isnt' stopping the plants from being built- it's that pesky "free market" thing that's causing them to be delayed.
but the ethanol plant 20 miles from me (in Fergus Falls, MN) has been cranking out moonshine for the last couple of months now..
but the ethanol plant 20 miles from me (in Fergus Falls, MN) has been cranking out moonshine for the last couple of months now..
Yes, that is true, however, that corn still makes it to the "human consumption" market, via cattle, etc, etc.
If you flood the market with a product you drive the price of that product down, not up.
+1
i beleive what he meant to say was that farmers are finding it more cost effective to produce fuel corn rather that food corn. this is going to effect the economy when the food prices rise. For this reason, the govt is concerned.
usetaboost
SAY CAR RAMROD!!
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
When the food prices rise ? When is now and has been for a while! Between having another ethonal plant in the midwest and Elk Point, SD POSSIBLY getting an oil refinery built ($$$$) maybe gas will be that much cheaper around here. I'm all for alternative fuel but let's face it, we're opting to not grow food so we can grow other food and burn it . Let's see, barrels of oil going up when there's no shortage, no new refineries in like 20 or so years, and we're burning food.
F&ck it, I'm taking the mr. fusion off the delorian over at doc's house and hooking it up to my car. I'll have a place to put my beer can's and leftover late night snacks. I'll get to drive around, keep the earth green, and not pay for garbage pickup anymore-its a no-brainer
? When is now and has been for a while! Between having another ethonal plant in the midwest and Elk Point, SD POSSIBLY getting an oil refinery built ($$$$) maybe gas will be that much cheaper around here. I'm all for alternative fuel but let's face it, we're opting to not grow food so we can grow other food and burn it . Let's see, barrels of oil going up when there's no shortage, no new refineries in like 20 or so years, and we're burning food.F&ck it, I'm taking the mr. fusion off the delorian over at doc's house and hooking it up to my car. I'll have a place to put my beer can's and leftover late night snacks. I'll get to drive around, keep the earth green, and not pay for garbage pickup anymore-its a no-brainer
This one is supposed to be built around Moline. Not exactly sure where. I know the locals were pretty pumped about it. I'll find a little more info out tomorrow and post.
novaderrik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- May 12, 2004
and a pretty sizable percentage of the corn that is used to make ethanol makes it thru the process and gets sold back to farmers to feed to cattle after the ethanol is "taken out" of it, so the amount that's taken out of the food chain is actually quite small.
give it a few years for everyone to figure out what needs to be done to create a "balance" between food and fuel, and things will start to even out..
I read that about the distiller grains being fed to the cows after they are done processing the Ethanol. The problem is that the corn still has alcohol in it.. that is not a good thing to be feeding that to the cows... much less any corn for that matter :frown:
Read this : Meat Wagon: Cow-feed misdeeds | Gristmill: The environmental news blog | Grist
Just one of many stories that explains corn of any kind is not a good feed stock for cows, much less distiller grains that come from Ethanol production
I say let the cows eat grass and feed them a lil oats if you must and leave all the feed corn for the Ethanol plants ..LOL :biggrin:
Well, for starters, you probably wouldn't walk off of a cattle farm alive if you told the cattle farmer that he couldn't feed corn to their cattle. Cattle will show the best gains from feeding corn.
When I read through that article, it's riddled with negative and very pointed descriptive words referring to distiller's grains as "mush" and "waste product".......and neither are accurate.
Linux - there are basically two types of distiller's grains that come from different types of ethanol processes.
One is DDGS, which is when dryers are used to dry down the 'wet grains' after they've been separated from the stream coming off of the distillation system. With these systems, it's basically impossible for alcohol to end up in the feed due to the very high combustion chamber temperatures in the dryers that will boil out any & all ethanol left over in the 'wet grains'.
The second type of distiller's grains is what some call DWG (Distiller's Wet Grains). To make it quick, this type of feed is made basically by skipping the dryer systems all together and selling the wet grains once they've been separated from the stream coming off of the distillation process. With this system, it's possible to get alcohol into the DWG if there is an 'upset' in the distillation process resulting in not all of the ethanol being boiled out in the distillation system. Although it's possible, I doubt it is the "norm" considering these places are in the business to make alcohol and not lose it going out in the DWG.
However, there's a very interesting statement in this article. It says, "And even the staunchest biofuel champions admit that without a use for distillers grains, corn-based ethanol would consume more energy than it produces."
This very statement hints and confirms that with including the energy produced from feeding the distillers grains back into the market place, that corn-based ethanol does in face produce more energy than it takes to produce it.
Compared to oil, that's pretty good considering that to refine a barrel of oil it takes approximately 30% of that barrel. Not to mention it also takes about 1,800 gallons of water to refine a barrel of oil, compared to 3 gallons of water per gallon of ethanol.
http://media.mgbg.com/wkrg/photos/weather/downloads/Water_Facts.pdf
Wow you know alot about distiller grains you must drink
yes farmers feed their cows corn, no it isn't good for them. it fattens them up for market to get your nice marbled meat thats about it.. its all about BIG beef upping the "ON the Hoof" poundage so they can make more money
never mind the cows get insulin resistant and get their own form of diabetes which in turn we eat the meat..... mmm connect the dots grasshopper..LOL
Its all about the money :biggrin:
I'll leave that can of worms closed for another thread and another time
As far as corn ethanol goes it needs to go away and we need to adopt the celluosic process and be done with it, better process, better fuel, etc question is when
University of Texas here in Austin is one of the places working on it as we speak Corn is a just a stop gap measure as far as I'm concerned. Just think a few years ago corn farmers were the government's whipping posts and political fodder and now.....
As far as corn ethanol goes it needs to go away and we need to adopt the celluosic process and be done with it, better process, better fuel, etc question is when
Corn is a just a stop gap measure as far as I'm concerned. Just think a few years ago corn farmers were the government's whipping posts and political fodder and now.....
I don't agree that it "needs to go away", but that's okay, I can have a debate with anyone an not agree, no problem.
And hey, it's pretty hard to say the cellulosic process is better before it's even being used on a high scale. Right now it isn't economical, and that is the truth. That's why it's all about the research right now. Also, it isn't a 'better' fuel just for the simple fact that the end product of cellulosic ethanol or corn ethanol is identical. And lastly, the U of T is not the only group working on this, trust me.
Think of it this way, if we weren't currently producing ethanol from corn, the money being sunk in to cellulosic ethanol now definitely would be many, many years behind where it is today. Corn to ethanol has emerged some technologies that will help make cellulosic technology a viable and economic alternative to what we're doing today.
In regards to the celluosic, obviously we would using something other than corn?? LOL I hope at this point I'm not that myopic :tongue:
That is the point of celluosic so we can use switchgrass, etc.. BTW the one I'm talking about is the one step celluosic...probably the furthest out in terms of getting into production.
That is the point of celluosic so we can use switchgrass, etc.. BTW the one I'm talking about is the one step celluosic...probably the furthest out in terms of getting into production.
