Lets talk Oil (and I don't mean brands)

[TT/Ameasap]

Last year when I swapped to E85, I noticed lots of water coming out of my cutout, so I decided to look at the oil from the breather tube. Sure enough, I could see the murky oil passing through and within a minute or so, its cycled through and clear again. I try and drive my car anytime I start it to boil out the water, but I cant do this everytime. It irritates me that I know this is happening. From what I read on the internet, this happens to alI cars that sit. That is why you dont start them during the winter season....You have to drive them.
I have put some hard miles on here since the E85 and the oil always looks good, but wondered if anyone else has witnessed this happen.
Seems like E85 is more susceptible to water contamination than gas IMO.
I have since swapped my fan turn on point to 180 degrees and make sure the car is good and warm before boosting tho.

 

[cruzn57]

the drawbacks of E85.....

 

[TT/Ameasap]

Actually, no matter what fuel you use, the moister is always gonna be there, unless the storage is climate controlled.

 

[turbocamino1]

Actually, no matter what fuel you use, the moister is always gonna be there, unless the storage is climate controlled.[/quote But, nothing like ethanol washing down the cyl walls....drawback of e85. While its running,burning off the water....is it(water) causing wear? that would be my worry...

 

[kidglok]

Ethanol is hygroscopic, and it seems to get into the crankcase more so than gasoline...perhaps because its runs a lot richer?

 

[earlbrown]

Just a downfall of stupid IRS rules. Since E85 is required to have gasoline in it, it can't hold hardly any water before settling out.

It would be soooooo much better fuel if it didn't have to be cut with a denaturant.

 

[bison]

Just a downfall of stupid IRS rules. Since E85 is required to have gasoline in it, it can't hold hardly any water before settling out.

It would be soooooo much better fuel if it didn't have to be cut with a denaturant.

They would only need to add less than 1% gasoline to denature it. I doubt that's why they use gasoline. Probably to help with cold starts in cold weather.

 

[kidglok]

you can only reach about 95% pure ethanol anyway, because ethanol and water form an azeotrope and cannot be distilled any further.

 

[Powertechn2]

When you use e85 in a flex fuel vehicle you have to cut the oil change life in half, I know that on your car you aren't putting the miles on like a DD, but if you are used to changing once a season you may want to double that, just my .02 tho.

Also I would not suggest leaving any E85 in the tank or cell for any period of time while sitting due to the hygroscopic nature as well as the corrosivity.

 

[BEATAV8]

Combustion makes a lot of water no matter what kind of fuel your using. Gas, alcohol, diesel.

ethanol
C2H5OH + 3O2 --> 2CO2 + 3H2O

Gas
2C8H18 + 25O2 --> 18H2O + 16CO2

That water goes into the exhaust and into the blow-by. If the exhaust pipe is cold, the water condenses. Same thing in the crankcase. If the crankcase is cold, the water in the blow by gas condenses. It evaporates later when the engine warms up.

 

[earlbrown]

They would only need to add less than 1% gasoline to denature it. I doubt that's why they use gasoline. Probably to help with cold starts in cold weather.

Legally it has to be at least 2%. Its not enough to make it undrinkable, if you take a drink of yeast pee that's untaxed the gobment wants to make sure you die.

Pretty sure gas is used because it's cheep and easy. The list is actually pretty long of stuff that's legal to use other than gasoline. Some E98 cut with 2% toluene might be pretty fun to play with

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-id...e=27:1.0.1.1.17&idno=27#27:1.0.1.1.17.7.253.1

 

[dirtymax731]

One issue with ethanol like the others said is it is hygroscopic which means not only does it like water. It can attract water from the atmosphere.




Sent while napping in a walnut orchard.

Built. Not bought

 

[Mike Licht]

certain oils like Brad Penn are not recommended for use with alky based fuels, it says it right on their website. VR1 is recommended (i am sure there are others) and that fixed some of that problem in my car

 

[kidglok]

certain oils like Brad Penn are not recommended for use with alky based fuels, it says it right on their website. VR1 is recommended (i am sure there are others) and that fixed some of that problem in my car

 

[Mike Licht]

this

 

[kidglok]

it seems like they are more specific to e85 (ethanol), because they seem to be ok with methanol and nitromethane?

 

[Nick Micale]

Here is the quote from the Brad Penn site:

"We are now hearing from passenger car customers, specifically owners/operators of older “vintage” or “legacy” vehicles that are encountering similar gumming and/or deposit issues. As a matter of fact, the issue is compounded when used oil is left in the crankcase during lengthy cold ambient temperature storage conditions. Our BRAD PENN® Penn-Grade 1® High Performance Engine Oils should not be considered for use with E85 fuel. Prior to the very latest PCMO ILSAC GF-5 / API SN (Resource Conserving) classification, most motor oils were not specifically designed to handle E85 fuels."

From what I have been able to find, even with the new classification of the GF5 oils there is some doubt of how compatible they will be with e-85?

The 2 areas mentioned above are cold weather, which means more moisture, and long storage periods which will allow more moisture to form.

Fortunately we do not have "cold" weather here, and I personally start my e-85 cars at least every 2 weeks, and even flush the fuel system with gasoline at least once a year, usually twice.

I had a long conversation with Ken Tyger at Brad Penn who is the head tech person and actually wrote the comment above. It was based upon one customer in Colorado who left the oil in his e-85 car over the winter and then found it "scammer" when drained in the spring.

He also stated in the 20-50 blend with 10% synthetic it works better in the colder climates, as the straight weights are all Penn pure oil.

The conclusions we both agreed upon is do NOT leave any brand oil in the crankcase of an e-85 vehicle for a long storage period, especially in cold weather.

Mike, I appreciate your post to call attention to this issue as I stock and use Brad Penn oil and have since the days when it was the "Green" oil as the real Kendall!

You can watch the Brad Penn web site as Ken said he will update his info from that incident a few years ago with more recent results which he has gathered.

 

[Nick Micale]

......Also I would not suggest leaving any E85 in the tank or cell for any period of time while sitting due to the hygroscopic nature as well as the corrosivity.

I just want to add a comment about this subject.

When I was at SEMA this past November, I made a point to talk with tech reps from Stabil, Joe Gibbs, Lucas and a couple other companies that have a specific additive to help prolong shelf life of e-85 as well as protecting system components.

It is common knowledge in the industry that pump gas has a normal shelf life of ~3 weeks before the octane rating starts decreasing. So I wanted to know how this affects e-85 and what help can be expected from the popular additives.

After extensive and informative conversations with many of the expert reps, their comments were about all the same.

There is a big problem with e-85 in carburetors as the fuel sits in a bowl and the water will settle on the bottom and else where to cause major issues. The testing has shown great improvements to keep the water in suspension to minimize corrosion as well as it leaves a coating/film on internal surfaces to prevent deposits

The e-85 additive will prolong shelf life and also will help protect the fuel tank, lines and injectors with fuel sitting in them.

I use a fuel additive in both my e-85 cars and most of the local owners do as well.

 

[Mike Licht]

I do have cold weather here and I really like Brad Penn oil we use it we sell it but I kept getting milky stuff in my breathers when using it with the E85 I called them and was told that I should try another oil sure enough that cleared it up .

 

[kidglok]

This e85 stuff really complicates things doesn't it? Lol