New Buick heads up class (67 turbo, etc...)

[Jay Wicks]

I'm not sure what the target is for this new class, but I think it would be great if there was a heads up class available for a dual purpose street/strip car. A class where the largest majority of turbo Regals exist. Give them a place to compete with a class that "won't break the bank". With all due respect, I see a 9 second class with what is being discussed now. I went 10:28 with a set of home ported heads, stock internals, small flat tappet, cleaned up headers, and a 67 P trim in a full weight limited, at a Buick event, Razor was there. Don Palumbo went 9s with a 67 Q trim at 235", 2 years ago. I remember seeing Kent Rudbeck run 10:40's Years Ago when the "new" TE-45 came out! How could this not be a 9 sec class considering stroker motors, roller cams and todays turbo's?
Remember the beginning of TSM? It started out as a 10 sec. class, everyone wondered if the little motor that could would actually run a 9. Now 2 cars are going to attempt an 8 at Reynolds! Absolutely incredible! I guess I would just like to see a class where the average guy can run his car heads up. I don't think most of them want to install a full cage, even if they already have a six point bar. Please find a way to keep it in the 10's. FWIW, I would like to see it run on radials and what ever trans, 200, 350, or 400 for each individual to keep his cost down.:biggrin:

 

[affordablegn]

Turbo Hot Street (THS)

Kip,
I appreciate all your hard work and thoughts!
It sounds like you have your hands full with this one!
I just think it's too close to TSM to me.
I agree with the cage rules and regulations for safety.
I just don't think the average joe wants to put a cage in his car.
It sounds like I am headed that way anyway!
You should know the cost just involved for a roll cage.
Not including all the time and labor to put it in.
I am just trying to slow the new class down for more people.
My car is almost perfect for this class already.
Now, I would have to install a cage and a smaller turbo just to start.
My car is capable of high 9's as it sits.
I know how much time and money I have put in my car.
I don't think the average joe can afford it right now.
I think the slower the class the more cars that will be involved.
I think you could get 20 cars more easily if you slow it down.
Just my 0.04 cents!!!
Keep up the good work!
Jason
AffordableGN

 

[quickt]

Point out one post where I said "easy 9.5", didn't happen. I think the best I said was 9.7. That's all it takes is a 9.99 before you have to spend a lot of money to run this class "legally". That is all I'm saying. Keep this class cheap, so people can run it. I'd hate to see the winner of this class at Columbus run a 9.98 and get kicked out of the track cuz he isn't legal. Like I said. If nobody runs a 9 in this class I'm happy cuz they aren't breaking safety rules.

You made reference to mid nines and 9.60. Ok I am wrong you did not say 9.50

 

[John Wilde]

Lonnie,

Thanks for your efforts.
It sounds like this class will be in the reach of most enthusiast.
For someone like me that will never have a car back east but
it still allows me to build my car towards a class and have something
to compare it to.

Thanks again,

BTW my junk with have a PT62/65, 200 and run on 275/60 DRs.
Also stock computer, intank pump and 3inch down pipe.

 

[V6RACER]

You are right, I'm going on theory, and just want a solid fun class. I don't see where my info needs to be corrected. You called me out about a 67 turbo which is rated at 750 saying there is no way it can pull 900 hp, yet a 70 turbo which is rated at 850 hp (750 vs 850, your 100 hp spread) is pushing close to 1000 hp to be able run an 8 second run, and we both know White and Cruz plan on doing that at Reynolds.

I like your thinking.. If Sunday is any indication of what will happen in Reynolds, have your cameras ready. I can tell you the 70 will make almost 950hp based on the performance. See pic.

I'll more than likely be at Columbus next year spectating. If nobody runs a 9, swing by and say "I told you so!"

This seems just like the discussion we had back in the begining of TSM. We all thought mid 10s would be the class and a few 10.20 cars.. Then Jason Cramer went 9s.. and now....

With a 67 turbo and someone who wants to be in the top of the class, you will see this class move into the 9s.

 

[Pablo]

It's not going to be cheap for the guy that has to replace his 67 for a smaller turbo. Kip is trying to get car count. I do not think there is anyone out there that will swap their 67 for a smaller turbo just to race 2 races in '09 with no guarantee of any THS races in '10. If the 9 second 67 car is going to go 9's at a THS event, he should have the safety equipment in place anyways, not just for the THS class.

The cost to go to a smaller turbo is going to be many multitudes less than the cost to build a car that can take a 67 turbo to the limit. All a 67 turbo is going to do is bring out the checkbook tuners and the ETs are going to be roughly representative of who has the biggest bank account.

Cut the turbo size down to keep it above 10.0 and you will have a competitive class where ingenuity plays a much bigger part.

Like I said in a previous post, I have a TE45A and would gladly downgrade to a smaller turbo to do some class racing. It would be cheaper in the long run.

 

[turbobuick]

Kip,
I am still up in the air on a TSM or THS car.
It sounds like the only differences are the turbo and the motor size???
Am I correct on my interpretation between TSM & THS?
I don't want to build a car to run at only 2 events.
How many events will THS be run at in 2009?
Are the payouts going to be similar to TSM?
Are the rules final now?
Can you relist them for everyone to see if they are.
It's looking more and more like TSM for me!
I thought this was a street class not a "SLOW TSM CLASS"!!!
I don't know if the rules are still up for discussion???
I still think turbo size should be 61-62mm maximum.
I ran my 61mm turbo into the high 10's.
Now I am into the low 10's with my 67mm turbo.
Drag radials only and 200r4 transmissions should be allowed.
Either way, I will be racing in one or the other!!!
Like KevinB said, "It's not going to be cheap!"
Just my 2 cents!!!
Thanks,
Jason
AffordableGN

I would say this class is closer to the GSCA's Turbo Street Stock class than TSM. With the exception of aftermarket fuel management the classes ARE REAL similar. The 67 turbo has been allowed in that class for at least 3 years now and a 66mm turbo has been allowed forever. Where are all the 9 second time slips in TSS?

Heads up racing will always push technology, parts and combos and racers faster and there will ALWAYS be someone willing to spend the money to do it. This is the nature of HU racing and you need to consider this when competing at this level. If your not willing to spend the money or run your stuff on the ragged edge you can bet the guy in the other lane will.

Safety rules and equipment will ALWAYS be dictated and regulated by the host track. The rules will only deal with the technical aspects of the class. If you show up with a 9 second car and have 12 second safety equipment that is your concern and the tracks. I can tell you from experience you won't get away with that at NTR.

I made a place for this race at this years BPG event in Columbus and I'm excited about seeing it happen. Before we make this a road show lets see how many people show and race the class in Columbus. Lot's of talk and bandwidth doesn't always make for a lot of racers on race day.

 

[NCTURBOS]

I would say this class is closer to the GSCA's Turbo Street Stock class than TSM. With the exception of aftermarket fuel management the classes ARE REAL similar. The 67 turbo has been allowed in that class for at least 3 years now and a 66mm turbo has been allowed forever. Where are all the 9 second time slips in TSS?

With added cui., XFI, and aluminum heads, you would see 9's in TSS. Those are the major differences between TSS and this proposed class. Currently some of the TSS cars have the MPH for a 9-sec. pass, just not the ET yet.


K.

 

[KevinB]

The cost to go to a smaller turbo is going to be many multitudes less than the cost to build a car that can take a 67 turbo to the limit. All a 67 turbo is going to do is bring out the checkbook tuners and the ETs are going to be roughly representative of who has the biggest bank account.

Cut the turbo size down to keep it above 10.0 and you will have a competitive class where ingenuity plays a much bigger part.

Like I said in a previous post, I have a TE45A and would gladly downgrade to a smaller turbo to do some class racing. It would be cheaper in the long run.

If you cut the turbo down in size, people are still going to spend the same amount of money getting every last bit out of the car. The way I see it, if the class is going to allow aluminum heads, aftermarket ecu's, etc, etc.. The turbo does not make a difference in cost. I do not know if there is such a thing as budget heads up racing. You will always have that guy who spends more, that guy who knows the right people, the guy who knows how to make his stuff work good and so on. Bracket racing is for those that do not want to push their stuff to the limit and keep up with the latest "tricks."

To sum it up, if you allow only a 62 turbo, there will still be a 10.X car and a 12.X car with the same exact turbo. Obviously the 10.X guy has spent the money and learned how to make his car work. The 12.X guy may have an unopened motor with stock everything but the turbo. Get where I am going with this??

 

[Grumpy]

I think its great that Grumpy thinks he can run 9.70s. I would prefer to see it done within the class rules in the heat of competition than assume it can. The 67 v/s 70 I am not assuming. I have done the work and know the diffrence. We have done the back to back 67hpq and 70hpq test on 4.6 cobra. There is 100+ more ponies in the 71GTQ.

yup .. I was asked for an "opinion" and I gave it .. Like I said in another post JC from Canada ran 9.82 .. Not that far from a 9.7999999 is it .. Sorry for posting in this thread. Guess you already know what the most a 67 will do Wonder why the turbo was even given a choice when you already had the answers

Like Jason White posted
This seems just like the discussion we had back in the begining of TSM. We all thought mid 10s would be the class and a few 10.20 cars.. Then Jason Cramer went 9s.. and now....

With a 67 turbo and someone who wants to be in the top of the class, you will see this class move into the 9s.


ahhhhh the "net"

 

[BadAssGN]

Wait a second.

Kips Rules State the Turbo must have a 3/2 comfiguration

that means a 3" inlet and a 2" outlet

You guys still think a 9 is possible....?

 

[johnplogii]

Wait a second.

Kips Rules State the Turbo must have a 3/2 comfiguration

that means a 3" inlet and a 2" outlet

You guys still think a 9 is possible....?

I run the 3" in 2" out housing p trim 67 with a 10 year old flat tappet cam, iron heads & no alcohol. I ran a 6.40 in the 1/8th this year but had several problems and the car hasn't ran right since BG. For comparison the 10.16 in my sig was 6.46 in the 1/8th. 6.40 would have been in the 10.0x range on a 1/4 mile track, so yes I am confident 9's are possible with these rules. As of right now I can only think of one car in the country that has run a 9.xx (Grumpy/Melissa) and I'm not so sure on the compressor housing? Grumpy also stated the car will not be competing in the class. So that leaves John Crawford from canada, and a few other folks like myself to try to get it done.

 

[BadAssGN]

I run the 3" in 2" out housing p trim 67 with a 10 year old flat tappet cam, iron heads & no alcohol. I ran a 6.40 in the 1/8th this year but had several problems and the car hasn't ran right since BG. For comparison the 10.16 in my sig was 6.46 in the 1/8th. 6.40 would have been in the 10.0x range on a 1/4 mile track, so yes I am confident 9's are possible with these rules. As of right now I can only think of one car in the country that has run a 9.xx (Grumpy/Melissa) and I'm not so sure on the compressor housing? Grumpy also stated the car will not be competing in the class. So that leaves John Crawford from canada, and a few other folks like myself to try to get it done.

Thats Simply Awesome....

I wasn't sure just how much air the 3/2 would move, apperantly it's enough

I gotta wonder what compressor cover the rest are using. and how many will have to change.

 

[RUQWKNF]

Wait a second.

Kips Rules State the Turbo must have a 3/2 comfiguration

that means a 3" inlet and a 2" outlet

You guys still think a 9 is possible....?

With alky and 32psi?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
Yes, if it's a PT67 GTQ.
I'm just sayin.....


Hey! Here's a thought, why not keep it a real street class and say no drag radials or slicks? Only regular radials. Bring all the power you want to the game. I bet we'd see some real drivers then.

If things work out for me next year, (getting married and all :redface: ) I would like to run this class. I know I won't be the fastest, but I would be willing to downsize the turbo if need be. And I know it would be alot of fun. Anything can happen in heads up racing right?
And FWIW, I do believe Jason W. has spoken the truth up above.


Patrick

 

[BMF_Racing]

.Anything can happen in heads up racing right?



Patrick

Very true. :biggrin:

 

[Grumpy]

I run the 3" in 2" out housing p trim 67 with a 10 year old flat tappet cam, iron heads & no alcohol. I ran a 6.40 in the 1/8th this year but had several problems and the car hasn't ran right since BG. For comparison the 10.16 in my sig was 6.46 in the 1/8th. 6.40 would have been in the 10.0x range on a 1/4 mile track, so yes I am confident 9's are possible with these rules. As of right now I can only think of one car in the country that has run a 9.xx (Grumpy/Melissa) and I'm not so sure on the compressor housing? Grumpy also stated the car will not be competing in the class. So that leaves John Crawford from canada, and a few other folks like myself to try to get it done.

John you are cranking and so is JC ..10.0s/ 9.82 ..now thats getting the job done !!! We are stayin in the Alky class . We are not changing anything in her car because she mainly races at our local track .. MAYBE a Buick event every now and then after next year . Probably only goin to make BG and thats a big "IF" .. Melissa is "busy" for the rest of the year after that.. Oh ya..forgot I have a stage 2 sitting on the stand waiting for a new home. Really don't think the Mazda is goin to need it so it maybe in her future
Main thing with this and EVERY class is that ya NEED car count .. Looks good here so far BUT ya have to wait and see how many actually show up :biggrin:

 

[BadAssGN]

Keeping with the Street car theme I think it should be Stock headers only

if that hasn't been addressed

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Keeping with the Street car theme I think it should be Stock headers only

if that hasn't been addressed

Count me out on the stock headers then . Otherwise I'm in for as many events as I can make it too. I'd even enter the TSM events if THS doesnt work out. The competition will bring out the best in everyone, Even if you dont have a 9 sec mill, isnt that right KevinB? LOL Deren.

 

[KevinB]

Count me out on the stock headers then . Otherwise I'm in for as many events as I can make it too. I'd even enter the TSM events if THS doesnt work out. The competition will bring out the best in everyone, Even if you dont have a 9 sec mill, isnt that right KevinB? LOL Deren.

Why Deren, I don't know what you are talking about. hahahaha

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Why Deren, I don't know what you are talking about. hahahaha

All that boost must have gone to your head. Deren