New DW 400 Fuel Pump!

[bison]

Do these tests take into consideration pumping columns of fuel against g forces? What size lines? What effect on pump output does the column of fuel have in a -6 or -8 line have at 1.5-2g? I’ve found that most in tank pumps move a lot of fuel in steady state testing but fall short in a hard accelerating cars. Most commonly used regulators want to be operating at a certain bypass volume or they have a hard time maintaining 1:1. Also run time can have an effect as well as the temperature of the pump.


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[Rafs-T-Type]

lets do some pump math and see what this means to us..........say we have 100 lb injectors.........for safety sake we will not want to exceed 85% duty cycle so that leaves us at actual 85 lbs usable.............we have 6 injectors so 85 X 6 = 510 lbs.............gas depending on formula ( ethanol, additives,lead etc) is about 6 lb per gal so.............510 lbs divided by 6 = 85 gallons..............there are 3.8 liters per gallon so 85 x 3.8 = 323 liters..........if our base fuel pressure is 43 lbs and we run 28 lbs of boost...............43 + 28 = 71.........at 13.5 volts this SINGLE pump can supply 351 liters of fuel at 70 psi -----------thats 800+ HP from a single in tank pump

This pump will actually fit a stock hanger with no mods..........no more trying to stuff two pumps inside a tank..I will post some pics of just that.........as for the wiring here is some interesting info.........due to its size this pump is much more efficient at pumping than two smaller pumps so current demands are drastically reduced over two smaller pumps pumping the same amount at a given pressure...............i will post some of that data as well......... and as for fuel lines????.........in no time at all Pat and I came up with a fail safe simple way to 2 step this pump so it can work with stock fuel lines...........we will post some of that data in the next few days...RC

So would it only be good for about 450 to the wheels on corn? 800 x .3 more volume = 560HP -112 (20%drivetrain lose) = 448 to the wheels.

 

[bpman1234]

how much is that sender?

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[MCH86GN]

Too bad I purchased a RA double pump. So far the DW400 sounds like it might have been a better fit for my performance goals.

Good job on testing and posting the data Rich!

 

[Turbo6inKY]

So would it only be good for about 450 to the wheels on corn? 800 x .3 more volume = 560HP -112 (20%drivetrain lose) = 448 to the wheels.

Apples and oranges in there or something.

Raceworks has a flow calculator. It says 650HP on E85 at 28psi takes 333LPH. At 351LPH, the rating is 685.
http://www.raceworks.com.au/calculators/fuel-pump-calculator/

You can't calculate just on the volume. E85 has a different BSFC that doesn't scale linearly with the increase in volume required, so you can't just multiply the gasoline HP by the volume factor.

Same site has an injector flow calculator. You can do the 685hp with this pump and a set of 120s.

 

[turbo89]

Apples and oranges in there or something.

Raceworks has a flow calculator. It says 650HP on E85 at 28psi takes 333LPH. At 351LPH, the rating is 685.
http://www.raceworks.com.au/calculators/fuel-pump-calculator/

You can't calculate just on the volume. E85 has a different BSFC that doesn't scale linearly with the increase in volume required, so you can't just multiply the gasoline HP by the volume factor.

Same site has an injector flow calculator. You can do the 685hp with this pump and a set of 120s.

I bet it does ALOT more than 685 hp .. ALOT MORE ..

 

[Mr.Spool]

Adding some real volts to this pump it can make some big power and not fall off.

 

[434nova]

What can this pump do on e85 with 16 volts? Is 650 rwhp possible?

 

[Turbo6inKY]

What can this pump do on e85 with 16 volts? Is 650 rwhp possible?

Yes. At 13.5 volts.

 

[phil_jordan]

Incredible info! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Jerryl]

This will be a game changer.
Delightfully, the spec on the website and Richards testing are in within 3%
This tell me that DW is not overstating the performance as many MFGs do.

 

[fast86gn]

Maybe its time to upgrade?

 

[Jerryl]

.

 

[~JM~]

Is the pricing available yet?

What would need to be done to upgrade from a common Walbro 255 & Casper/Racetronics Hot-Wire combination, to this new pump?

Thank you.

 

[turbo89]

Is the pricing available yet?

What would need to be done to upgrade from a common Walbro 255 & Casper/Racetronics Hot-Wire combination, to this new pump?

Thank you.

Lines / regulator

 

[wb_7354]

What does that sending unit cost?

$750 comes with wiring harness, power and ground, relay.


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[wb_7354]

lets do some pump math and see what this means to us..........say we have 100 lb injectors.........for safety sake we will not want to exceed 85% duty cycle so that leaves us at actual 85 lbs usable.............we have 6 injectors so 85 X 6 = 510 lbs.............gas depending on formula ( ethanol, additives,lead etc) is about 6 lb per gal so.............510 lbs divided by 6 = 85 gallons..............there are 3.8 liters per gallon so 85 x 3.8 = 323 liters..........if our base fuel pressure is 43 lbs and we run 28 lbs of boost...............43 + 28 = 71.........at 13.5 volts this SINGLE pump can supply 351 liters of fuel at 70 psi -----------thats 800+ HP from a single in tank pump

This pump will actually fit a stock hanger with no mods..........no more trying to stuff two pumps inside a tank..I will post some pics of just that.........as for the wiring here is some interesting info.........due to its size this pump is much more efficient at pumping than two smaller pumps so current demands are drastically reduced over two smaller pumps pumping the same amount at a given pressure...............i will post some of that data as well......... and as for fuel lines????.........in no time at all Pat and I came up with a fail safe simple way to 2 step this pump so it can work with stock fuel lines...........we will post some of that data in the next few days...RC

Thanks for testing this new pump out! Do you have any further data? I’ll be installing mine soon. I need as much info as possible so I don’t have to go back and redo anything. Thanks Richard.


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[A2000RICH]

Thanks for testing this new pump out! Do you have any further data? I’ll be installing mine soon. I need as much info as possible so I don’t have to go back and redo anything. Thanks Richard.


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pat and i were planning to do some serious testing last sunday but a held over dyno session got in the way of my plans hope to do it in the next week or so

 

[A2000RICH]

Do these tests take into consideration pumping columns of fuel against g forces? What size lines? What effect on pump output does the column of fuel have in a -6 or -8 line have at 1.5-2g? I’ve found that most in tank pumps move a lot of fuel in steady state testing but fall short in a hard accelerating cars. Most commonly used regulators want to be operating at a certain bypass volume or they have a hard time maintaining 1:1. Also run time can have an effect as well as the temperature of the pump.


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bison While i respect your knowledge i am having a lot of trouble with some of these assumptions. Let me state my doubts (of which i will do some serious testing in the next week or so to confirm or disclaim). "A column of fuel against g forces" without doing some math i will estimate a # 8 line from tank to rail will hold at most a quart of fuel. ( this pump needs no where near that size line but i will use it for an example anyhow) That would put the weight at 1.5 lbs of fuel in the line. At 2 G's (darn good launch ?) the fuel will weigh about 4.5 lbs. That non-compressible column of fuel will be pushing against a already spinning fuel pump that is capable of 80+ lbs almost instantly. (my guess is that it can react much faster than the car can move?). I can't see how a 4 lb force acting against a pump already in motion that can easily produce 90 lbs is going to have a hard time keeping up. Also about the temperature being a problem ?? No one races with a nearly empty tank ? These in tank pumps are totally submerged in several gallons of gasoline and the windings and brushes that are awash with gasoline normally show very little temperature rise in all my previous testing. Dissipation is typically less than 300 watts at maximum loading and thats not going to increase the pump temperature more than a few degrees in a typical 10 second drag race. Being totally submerged in gasoline has a rather extreme cooling effect------more heat is probably picked up from passing through the fuel rail in the engine compartment but even then a deviation in output is easily corrected by the regulator. These thoughts are just my intuitive impressions. I intend to research this in extreme detail as I have all the necessary instrumentation to get it right.

 

[434nova]

bison while i respect your knowledge i am having a lot of trouble with some of these assumptions let me state my doubts (of which i will do some serious testing in the next week or so to confirm or disclaim) "A column of fuel against g forces" without doing some math i will estimate a # 8 line from tank to rail will hold at most a quart of fuel ( this pump needs no where near that size line but i will use it for an example anyhow) that would put the weight at 1.5 lbs of fuel in the line at 2 G's (darn good launch ?) the fuel will weigh about 4.5 lbs that non-compressible column of fuel will be pushing against a already spinning fuel pump that is capable of 80+ lbs almost instantly (my guess is that it can react much faster than the car can move?) i can't see how a 4 lb force acting against a pump already in motion that can easily produce 90 lbs is going to have a hard time keeping up also about the temperature being a problem ?? no one races with a nearly empty tank ? these in tank pumps are totally submerged in several gallons of gasoline and the windings and brushes that are awash with gasoline normally show very little temperature rise in all my previous testing dissipation is typically less than 300 watts at maximum loading and thats not going to increase the pump temperature more than a few degrees in a typical 10 second drag race being totally submerged in gasoline has a rather extreme cooling effect------more heat is probably picked up from passing through the fuel rail in the engine compartment but even then a deviation in output is easily corrected by the regulator these thoughts are just my first impressions i intend to research this in extreme detail as i have all the necessary instrumentation to get it right

Will your testing be with e85 fuel? I’m curious to see how it will perform.