New to E85. Few questions

[Hot Air]

Guys and Gals,
You are killing me! Don't mess with "temporary fixes" to your fuel system so you can run E85 for one race or whatever. This is SERIOUS stuff. Run your motor lean (on E85 or ???) and you will be spending major bucks on your engine!!! The fuel system is the one place you don't cheapen out on a turbocharged high performance engine that is running at or near the edge! Do it right or don't do it at all!

Also, just because someone "did it" doesn't necessarily mean that you can "do it". The setups are NEVER identical!!!

My fuel system is WAY overkill but that is fine with me. I have way too many $'s in my engine to take a chance on the fuel system. But that is just me!

Conrad

BTW, I'm a 64 year old mechanical engineer and have calculated the demands that E85 places on the fuel system. While I am not running E85 (it is not readily available in my area), I can switch at any time by changing out the injectors, the 10 micron paper filter, and the FAST tune.

 

[Rafs-T-Type]

E85 moderator not running E85? Is that legal?

 

[turbocliff]

Just an update : The stock return line, single -8 feed, stock fuel rail, twin walbro intank pumps (both run continuously), 120# precision injectors have now over 600 street miles and countless passes / pulls on the street and track with no problems and never seeing more than 75% at 26-27psi with a billet67 turbo. Been 10.2Xs at 129 leaving on the footbrake with 255-60-16 drag radials and tipping the scales at 3600lbs.

E85 at the 5-6 stations in the chicago area actual ethanol content has ranged from 82-86%.

Next time to the track Ill up the boost from 26 to 30ish and use the transbrake that god gave me

 

[KevinB]

I went 127 MPH safely with stock feed and retur and double pumper and 95's. That was the limit for me. Unfortunately I will not know if it was the feed, pumps, or injectors that limited me because its all changed. No temp fixes. 160 injectors, -10 feed (its what I had laying around would have rather had -8). Sometimes what's on paper and what actually works can surprise you. For mid tens, stock fuel system with a double pumper and 95# injectors will work fine. Tested it and ran it that way 50 times down the track.

Cliff, my last fill up tested as 85 on the nose with my test tube tester.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

When mentioning the stock rail, is it the stock fuel rail with inlet feed restriction or is it a "Chopped Stock Rail"? Not the same.

 

[KevinB]

When mentioning the stock rail, is it the stock fuel rail with inlet feed restriction or is it a "Chopped Stock Rail"? Not the same.

My rail does not have an end welded on, just a -10 fitting screwed in. I know there is a restriction there, but I ran 142 on race gas this way. I am going to gradually step up the tune a little at a time and am going to monitor plugs in 1 and 3. I will be able to catch any fuel starvation in these holes (if any) before it hurts anything. Tsm racers used to run low 9s with the stock rail (i think dick kerney ran an 8) before the champion rails were allowed, so I know it cam at least run a mid to high 9 sec pass on e85.

 

[TurboBuick86]

There's plenty of us that have gotten e85 to work. I myself have gone the numbers in my signature leaving at 0 psi and my car is a stock line, stock rail, walbro in tank and Bosch inline rigged car with 84lb injectors. 23 psi was all I was getting with fuel pressing dropping to 55psi and 0 knock... Also stock computer! Same goes for my engine builder gabby who went 9's with 120lber's with the same setup as me, and also another good friend of ours that went exactly 10.04 @ 135 with a messed up 71 turbo.

 

[GNVYUS 1]

Kevin, why are you torturing yourself with dual pump hanger mods, bigger injector swaps etc when you know the inlet feed diameter is holding you back? Stick a -16 fitting on there, won't matter.
Why not just relief this area of backpressure (20 minute rail swap) and guarantee a lower IDC and go from here? Then the fuel line ID increase will support more volume of fuel to the rails and lower IDC even more.

TurboBuick86, so fuel pressure dropping to 55psi is an ideal "working" setup to recommend or is ok because the car ran xxx with 0 knock?

Guys, WTF is happening here?? This inadequate fuel system B.S. doesn't help our platform by passing down combo's to other members with clear issues. Why keep buying bigger pumps and injectors when we all clearly know where the backpressure issues are to MAXIMIZE the fuel system parts already in place?

Is it to say, Stock Fuel System???

 

[KevinB]

Its more than a 20 min swap when you don't have the rail to begin with. I think this one will be fine for high 9s. I will let everyone know hopefully this weekend if the torque converter gets here.

 

[CGASTON]

Can someone please tell me, why no one is runni g Red Armstrongs double pumper? That is a true and proven pump. He is running it and runs in the 9's... Please tell!

 

[Alky V6]

I know some people shy away from a dual pump setup to avoid a lean out from a possible situation where the second pump doesn't come on when it's supposed to.

 

[KevinB]

I know some people shy away from a dual pump setup to avoid a lean out from a possible situation where the second pump doesn't come on when it's supposed to.

It would be cool to come up with a fail safe for this. I personally run a small LED after the relay to let me know pump #2 is on.

 

[KevinB]

Ok, got the -10 feed done today and using stock feed as return and 160 injectors installed. Ran the system with both pumps at 80 psi for ten minutes with the engine off. No leaks. If I have a converter in my hands this Thursday, I will go to the track that night. If not Thursday, I can still go Friday or Saturday. Look for some updates to see if I can get a 9

 

[TurboBuick86]

GNVYUS 1- I never meant or said my fuel pressure issue as a good setup to run on. I just made that point that this fuel is tolerant enough and while it's no c16, it's awesome against detonation.

I'm glad that your working out the combination, I'm anxious to see what numbers you make. Me and gabby are basically gonna be doing the same setup in some upcoming weeks. He has the combination going on in the right direction, everytime we go out to the track, the car picks up.

 

[KevinB]

Just had a very successful track outing to say the least!
I'm not big on secrets, but I have a big race coming up in a few weeks so I'm going to leave a little out, such as ET, actual boost and some other stuff

Tonight, the temp was 92 at the track, humidity was horrible too. I just got home and am soaking wet with sweat. This is the first time I went out and tried to 60' the car. Track was horrible but I did manage a few good launches.

My new fuel system worked awesome! The car made several 130+ trap passes and the duty cycle was never above 58%:biggrin:
To review, My system is:
2 Walbro 307's with the relief pushed in. -10 feed to a screw in -10 to 3/8ths in the stock rail. Using stock feed as return. Added 160# injectors. Both pumps running at all times.

I'm far away from maxing out my 3 bar sensor on boost. Every run I change one thing just a little, come back, take plug readings (mainly looking for detonation) then make another change..the whole time watching trap speeds. I don't want to hurt any parts, so getting this car up to speed is a long process, but I learn something on every pass. I did go 131.55 mph on the last run, that was a small gain over the previous run. I will say it did like taking some fuel out. Timing is still very low. I haven't really messed with that yet because the plug strap is telling me it's ok where it's at. I never had any detonation showing on the plugs tonight...which means I'm far away from maxing out the e85.


This car is fun 131+ trapping car that almost is in the single digits, overdrive with a/c and uses $3/gallon gas. It's going to go faster:biggrin:

 

[Alky V6]

Thumbs up! Thanks for the update.

 

[turbocliff]

Very nice

 

[John Wilde]

Very cool Kevin, the E85 seems like great for the weekend warriors.
I am looking forward to more updates.

 

[KevinB]

Very cool Kevin, the E85 seems like great for the weekend warriors.
I am looking forward to more updates.

I plan on taking it past the weekend warrior part and using it at the bpg race later this month. I hope to go a few rounds.
The new converter is doing awesome....actually a little too awesome lol. Its keeping my engine below the power band in 3rd gear. It's a 9.5 ptc I got from a board member (thanks jasjamz!).

 

[John Wilde]

I plan on taking it past the weekend warrior part and using it at the bpg race later this month. I hope to go a few rounds.
The new converter is doing awesome....actually a little too awesome lol. Its keeping my engine below the power band in 3rd gear. It's a 9.5 ptc I got from a board member (thanks jasjamz!).

That is great news, turn that mutha up!!!