New Toyota Tundra ads really annoying me

[fitz3820]

"Like it or not, the Japanese make the best cars in the world and therefore have a growing market share and high resale values."

that claim is laughable at best

Then why does everyone benchmark against Japanese cars? Why do they have great resale value? Why do Japanese cars year after year rank at the top of quality ratings?

Why did Boeing follow the "Toyota Model" of manufacuruing?

Toyota in the benchmark for manufacturing, not just automotive.

Believe me, I try to buy American when I can but not for an inferior product.

 

[watz]

"Like it or not, the Japanese make the best cars in the world and therefore have a growing market share and high resale values."




Then why does everyone benchmark against Japanese cars? Why do they have great resale value? Why do Japanese cars year after year rank at the top of quality ratings?

Why did Boeing follow the "Toyota Model" of manufacuruing?

Toyota in the benchmark for manufacturing, not just automotive.

Believe me, I try to buy American when I can but not for an inferior product.

Unless the "inferior product" is priced right. I just bought a Dodge pickup and I can tell you it's not the smoothest most powerful truck on the planet. But I can tell you this, no way Toyota, Nissan, GM or Ford could get close to the price. I don't mind driving something "lesser" as long as I don't pay more for it.

I like the new Tundra but a crew cab 4x4 1/2 ton will cost as much as a 3/4 diesel Dodge. I realize the Toy matches well with other half tons but the prices are CRAZY. The stickers are close so auto mags will say they are the close, but when you go to buy Toyota dealers DO NOT MOVE on sticker. Domestic's right now I wouldn't pay anything more than 10k under the window sticker...

That's the main diff for me anyway.

 

[turbofish38]

Here's a good American auto maker:

Mexico

General Motors de Mexico, S. de R. L. de C.V.
Cadillac Chevrolet HUMMER
Pontiac Saab

You need to get some accurate information there.Mexico imports Trans Ams? Ya back in 2002! BTW import means they bring into Mexico.As of the 2007 model year the only GM models being assembled in Mexico and sold here in the states are:
Buick Rendezvous
Chevrolet HHR,Suburban and Avalanche

Thats it.

Now to really make your point stand out why dont you do a search and post all of the OTHER cars and trucks assembled there. Yep Toyota builds cars in Mexico too. What a shocker. When I have another 15 minutes of my life to waste I'll post that too.

 

[krom]

Ford trucks work behind the scenes in Tundra commercial

http://www.toyota.com/vehicles/minisite/commercial/tundra_tv1.html

 

[TexasT]

You guys make me laugh. You have no clue do you. My 06 Tundra has 12k miles and I havent had one problem with it. It also has the highest resale in its class and gets about 17mpg in all around driving.

Try that in a Ford or Chevy.

And for you foriegn car haters.

James

My 'Burb is still getting 17mpg doesn't burn any oil(Though it drips a little) and this is at over 250K. Get back to me when yours gets close to that mileage. Resale, price a Suburban, I think they hold value pretty well. I'll admit to changing the oil regularly, and replacing a few parts(Starter alternator, water pump, and a used recycler yard trans at about 255K. But for my dollar this is the most cost effective vehicle I've ever had.

 

[SVORay]

Get back to me when yours gets close to that mileage.

Thats no lie...12k is brand new when it comes to trucks!

 

[mazdatech78]

I dont doubt there are some American cars and trucks that have good stories like your Suburban. But thats the exception to the rule. My 87 Toyota pickup has a ton of miles and I probably dont have 2K into it with buying the truck. That was 100k miles ago. I cant remember the last time I even saw an 87 Ranger or S10 on the road.

 

[turbofish38]

I dont doubt there are some American cars and trucks that have good stories like your Suburban. But thats the exception to the rule. My 87 Toyota pickup has a ton of miles and I probably dont have 2K into it with buying the truck. That was 100k miles ago. I cant remember the last time I even saw an 87 Ranger or S10 on the road.

And I cant think of the last time I saw a wimpy 4 banger Toyota or any import for that matter, still on the road. Give it up. You're living in denial like every other import snob out there. The only reason you have a job is because Toyotas break and wear out just like everything else out there.

 

[GNTIM]

I dont doubt there are some American cars and trucks that have good stories like your Suburban. But thats the exception to the rule. My 87 Toyota pickup has a ton of miles and I probably dont have 2K into it with buying the truck. That was 100k miles ago. I cant remember the last time I even saw an 87 Ranger or S10 on the road.

Maybe the exception to YOUR rule. I ran a high voulme shop for years and have been turning wrenches professionally since the mid-eighties and have seen many high mileage American cars with low repair problems. We used to do 20 to 40 state inspection and emission tests on every kind of vehicle from Amc to Yugos from the 60s to new cars everyday and have seen low and high mileage cars from around the world in every condition and mileage. Every car manufacturer has put out their share of junk, in my opinion the Japaneese cars in general were probably better during the mid eighties till mid 1990s but they still put out their share of crap too. They forced other manufacturers to build better cars and as a result and most cars manufacturers are pretty close now. The s10 probably was not a great truck but automatic Honda Accords of the same generation had major trans problems and balance shaft seals popping out destroying engines. Chrysler auto transmissions had the same failure rate as Honda but the first several years of the v6 Camry had major engine problems, a certain Mercedes Benz model had 10 pages of technical service bulletins, the first year Hyundai cars were complete crap but they sell well now....this could go on forever! Everybody sees different things in life and has different opinions. My original post was to say that Toyotas are over-rated, people sometimes over look certain issues or are not aware of the whole story. The bottom line is the Tundra ad is terribly biased and misleading.

 

[SVORay]

I cant remember the last time I even saw an 87 Ranger or S10 on the road.

It's hard to aruge with this logic.


The 87' Rangers came with a 2.3L I4 motor...luma design. This design has been around for 40 years or more. It first started off in a Pinto as a 2.0L then moved into a 2.3L and ended as a 2.5l. You may not see an 87 Ranger but they used the same basic motor all the way up to 96' Ranger. The same motor was used in the 79-93 stangs. The 2.3L is a bullit proof motor. I logged in over 130k on my old 93' LX while others got 200-300k. My SVO had the same 2.3L with 108k and zero issues. It did come stock witha turbocharged but was still a basic 2.3L. The SVO was the only stang to ever out perform a Ferrari 306 and Porscha 944 turbo when first relseased accroding to R&R October issue of 1983. I want to see some Toyota 4banger do that! There is tons of 2.3L powered cars thats running 11's-9's and guess what, they're using the same 20 year old head bolts,rods, rod bolts, block, and main bolts.

 

[STAGE 2]

Interesting conversation so far.

This tundra is a new design, so it remains to be seen whether or not it has the same issues of the old one.

That said, for the same price or cheaper than both ford or chevy you get about 100 more HP, a hell of alot more towing, and decent fuel mileage without all that BS of having half your engine shut off.

As far as reliability goes, japan still has us beat. Not anywhere as bad as it did back in the 80's but we are still behind. Camry and accord are still the 2 top selling sedans in America. They certianly aren't performance cars, and they may or may not be comfortable depending on one's preferences, but they are well built. You can't cheat quality. All you have to do is run your hand across the dash, or grasp the shifter in a honda, and then brand X american sedan and the difference is immediate.

As for trucks, well I still think that toyota puts out the finest trucks/4x4's on the market. Granted they have slouched lately catering to the soccer mom crowd, but there are tons of older land cruisers and 4 runners still on the road. Find a nice one in really good condition and its not unheard of to see it go between 8-12k.

The older tundra wasn't a big success because it didn't do anything. It was too big for those who wanted a compact, and far too small for those who wanted a work truck.

I love my GN, but I bought it for the engine, not the car. With 1, maybe 2 exceptions there really isn't a reason to buy an american car. The onyl reason to buy an american truck is if you want a super duty or a diesel. If this tundra lives up to the hype, ford/chevy are going to fall on even harder times since its their truck divisions that have been keeping them afloat.

 

[whitehot84]

You need to get some accurate information there.Mexico imports Trans Ams? Ya back in 2002! BTW import means they bring into Mexico.As of the 2007 model year the only GM models being assembled in Mexico and sold here in the states are:
Buick Rendezvous
Chevrolet HHR,Suburban and Avalanche

Thats it.

Now to really make your point stand out why dont you do a search and post all of the OTHER cars and trucks assembled there. Yep Toyota builds cars in Mexico too. What a shocker. When I have another 15 minutes of my life to waste I'll post that too.

GM Mexico Exports:

*
United States -- Cavalier, Sunfire, Silverado, Suburban, Aztek (CY2000)


Pulled it right off the GM website.

 

[project50]

I think every auto maker has made it's fair share if sh#t. Lets go back to 03 when ford gives us "truck" guys a huge steaming pile of 6.0 along with a trans that shatters it's gears- That "has been tested for millions of miles"- there using that SAME line now on the new 6.4
Now I have never owned a Toyota, yet I have 3 PSD ford 7.3 and you would have to pay me a good amount of money to take a 6.0 ford home.

It is good to see more HP and fuel economy- It stated some years ago with the diesels- except they just went for the hp side of things and forgot about mileage. Toyota will IMHO give the F150 a huge run for it's money and even the F250-350 guys (you know who you are ) that have the big truck to keep up with the 'Jones' to drive the trash to the dump.

For a real work truck I need a Diesel. But I will watch and see how it goes. I also like the looks of the truck- MUCH better than the bat eye headlight look of the CHEVYS from a couple of years ago.
Theres my .02
Flame away
Joel:biggrin:

 

[budget_crx]

I've been sitting here for about ten minutes now trying to take all this in and hopefully clear some things up, but i am at a loss. Both countries mae great cars, both countries make crap cars. One manufacturer is not better than the other. Every vehicle has its own purpose, even if its catogorized with similar cars in its "class." I believe the only reason japanese cars are doing so well is because of the japanese laws and the companies themselve, not the cars they produce.

.02

 

[TexasT]

I see this is a losing battle for a diehard

I've been sitting here for about ten minutes now trying to take all this in and hopefully clear some things up, but i am at a loss. Both countries mae great cars, both countries make crap cars. One manufacturer is not better than the other. Every vehicle has its own purpose, even if its catogorized with similar cars in its "class." I believe the only reason japanese cars are doing so well is because of the japanese laws and the companies themselve, not the cars they produce.

.02

Just to point out the obvious, this is a site based on a vehicle manufacturered by GM. What makes anyone think that there isn't a bunch of GM diehards here? I mean really do you think us diehards wouldn't defend GM?

That said, for the same price or cheaper than both ford or chevy you get about 100 more HP, a hell of alot more towing, and decent fuel mileage without all that BS of having half your engine shut off.

I'd like to challenge someone who buys one of the "second coming" toyota p/u to bring it over. We'll load up my trailer and see just how much it'll pull. Some crazy ad on tv with a see saw doesn't equal the real world no matter how real it seems.

I mean what type equipment does this 10K trailer rating get you? Mine has a 14 bolt full floating rear end, are your wheels staying on if you break an axle? Mine has a 4l80E trans. Are you towing in overdrive? What mileage are you getting. How many peolpe are you bringing with you? Mine has seating for Eight. Plus some room for the dog behind the seat. In the bed, come on this is the family dog, wife's not having it out in the weather.

mazdatech78 I dont doubt there are some American cars and trucks that have good stories like your Suburban. But thats the exception to the rule. My 87 Toyota pickup has a ton of miles and I probably dont have 2K into it with buying the truck. That was 100k miles ago. I cant remember the last time I even saw an 87 Ranger or S10 on the road.

I don't think it is the exception. More examples. '98 c2500 pickup we used for a business truck made 220 K before a head gasket failure. Pulled a trailer. went to the work site every day. We did do a fuel pump around 70k and the belt tensioner fell off one day on the highway around 42K but it did well other than that. Wifes DD '99 K2500 burb 105K did a water pump a few months ago other than that it's been great and does pull the trailer mentioned in the challenge when called upon. Dad's 2000 c1500 Burb went 117K with no part replacement I know of. Got 20mpg fully loaded(4 kids, all the stuff) on a 2000 mile trip on vacation. Traded on a 2005 Z71 thaat is doing well at over 50K.

I must have good luck? NO we take care of the machines that transport us. I will admit most vehicles should go 100k with proper maintenance. Problem is the routine oil and lube isn't getting done on a vast amount of vehicles and people wonder why their car breaks down.

 

[watz]

Interesting conversation so far.

This tundra is a new design, so it remains to be seen whether or not it has the same issues of the old one.

That said, for the same price or cheaper than both ford or chevy you get about 100 more HP, a hell of alot more towing, and decent fuel mileage without all that BS of having half your engine shut off.

As far as reliability goes, japan still has us beat. Not anywhere as bad as it did back in the 80's but we are still behind. Camry and accord are still the 2 top selling sedans in America. They certianly aren't performance cars, and they may or may not be comfortable depending on one's preferences, but they are well built. You can't cheat quality. All you have to do is run your hand across the dash, or grasp the shifter in a honda, and then brand X american sedan and the difference is immediate.

As for trucks, well I still think that toyota puts out the finest trucks/4x4's on the market. Granted they have slouched lately catering to the soccer mom crowd, but there are tons of older land cruisers and 4 runners still on the road. Find a nice one in really good condition and its not unheard of to see it go between 8-12k.

The older tundra wasn't a big success because it didn't do anything. It was too big for those who wanted a compact, and far too small for those who wanted a work truck.

I love my GN, but I bought it for the engine, not the car. With 1, maybe 2 exceptions there really isn't a reason to buy an american car. The onyl reason to buy an american truck is if you want a super duty or a diesel. If this tundra lives up to the hype, ford/chevy are going to fall on even harder times since its their truck divisions that have been keeping them afloat.

NO FREAKIN WAY. Absolutely NO WAY will you EVER be able to buy a Toyota 1/2 ton for the same price or less than any domestic. You also don't get 100 more ponies. The tundra is a new truck top to bottom we'll see how it goes, but you are kidding yourself and the rest of the people you sling this "same price" stuff on if you think for 1 second you can get a Toy for the same price as a domestic cheaper is a BIG PIPE dream.

Stickers are close but so the mag's will say this BUT GM, FORD and DODGE all pull about 10k off at the dealer. Toyota you'll pay sticker or go home empty handed PERIOD.

So 42k for a Toyota half ton crew max. What can you get from domestics? 1 ton diesels with all the bells and whistles for that price. Don't kid yourself thinking Toy is cheaper...

 

[mazdatech78]

Its called paying for quality. Ask yourself why American car dealers give cars away and you pay sticker for a Jap car/truck? If American cars and trucks were that good they wouldnt have to knock 10k off the price. The proof is in the sales figures. Jap cars are always on the top of sales in their respective catagories and American cars arent. Just ask yourself why more and more Americans will pay more for a Japanese car compared to their American counterpart and why the big 3 lost something in the range of 20 BILLION dollars last year? Its time for the American car companies to start building some well built, reliable automobiles. If not one or more of them will be out of business in our lifetime!

James

 

[watz]

Sounds like marketing to me. I had a Chevy Silverado for 7 years, bought brakes and tires in 104k on the clock when I traded it in. Yes, the gas gauge didn't work but that's in 7 years.

Go over to Toyotasolutions.com find a Tundra owner that doesn't replace his brakes every 17 - 20k.

But anyway, if 10k less means might gas gauge might stop working after 70k or so... I guess I can live with that.

Tundra's are good trucks. I would buy one but no way in h3ll I would spend 40k on a truck. It's a truck, it goes to the dump, hunting, fishing, pulls my Buick and gets my butt to work. I can't live in the dang thing.

BTW American manufactures lost 20 billion last year because of Unions and p!ss poor management not because of bad vehicles. Ford produced one of the worst engines in there history Powerstroke 6.0 and still the warranty costs didn't even DENT what they had to pay there retired personnel.

 

[forzfed]

Its called paying for quality. Ask yourself why American car dealers give cars away and you pay sticker for a Jap car/truck? If American cars and trucks were that good they wouldnt have to knock 10k off the price. The proof is in the sales figures. Jap cars are always on the top of sales in their respective catagories and American cars arent. Just ask yourself why more and more Americans will pay more for a Japanese car compared to their American counterpart and why the big 3 lost something in the range of 20 BILLION dollars last year? Its time for the American car companies to start building some well built, reliable automobiles. If not one or more of them will be out of business in our lifetime!

James

What about Harley's? They were known to have some issues but yet they sell for more then the Jap bikes.

 

[mazdatech78]

Harleys are status symbols, not everyday transportation. You pay for the name Harley, not the enginering that went into it, which isnt much compared to the technology that is in some of the newest Jap and European bikes. So its really comparing apples to oranges with the topic we are discussing.

James