nitrous plate for gn

[turbosam6]

Originally posted by 85HOT-T
Turbo sam I actually do know my stuff about no2. Sounds like your all messed up. A dry system has only no2 thats why you would run that in the up pipe. Why spray fuel too, no point. Oh yeah and i have seen a no2 system, actually I have one for my 4banger s-10. Opps guess you talked too soon huh.

Again, Ill ask: If you are running a dry kit (and yes, I know what the difference between a dry kit and wet kit are, thats not what we were debating anyway), where does the extra fuel come in? If you just spray N2O (not no2, nitrous master), you will lean out the mixture and break something. I had a dry kit on my Z28, and the extra fuel was supplied by the injectors, which cannot be done on a GN because the regulator is boost referenced. I could probably allow the FAST ecm on my car to compensate and add the extra fuel, but I see no way you could achieve this with a stock ecm.

I did not mean to take the thread off course, and I'm not being sarcastic, I'm being serious. I hate when people are too ignorant to see that they are wrong when someone explains it to them. Anyway, 1000miles, you did get an answer to your question. You did not like that answer, so you keep arguing. A plate would be very hard to build in a fashion which would allow proper mixing of the N2O, fuel, and air. Not saying its impossible, but why even try when a nozzle would work and has worked so many times? Hell, make it easy on yourself and buy a NOS kit for a GN, no brainer!

 

[Razor]

Originally posted by 1000MileStylez

BTW I didnt build my car to do exactly what Roy did. I rather beat his 9.50 by quite some margin. We'll see.

To beat his 9.4 by some margin, car must do it at 3550, through the full exhuast, on a 109 block... Good luck I know how easy that is.

At 2800 lbs.. why even bring his name up? Apples to oranges comparison. And then cheapen the deal by wanting to cut a stock plenum and turn it into a spacer.

If you are serious, direct port is the way to go for a high HP application using N2O.. Way I see it, 8.50's at 2800 lbs and you'll be there..at his level.

Sam this post is full of mis-information.. hey its the internet.. take your info with caution.

 

[1000MileStylez]

someone else was comparing me to roy garcia thats why i braught it up..


I think i will just go with a 6 fogger system. I thaught maybe a couple of bars on each side of the plenum would work well plus adding more holes towards the rear runners would even out flow.

 

[DeltaT]

David Vizard, in his excellent book "Nitrous-Oxide Injection" (S-A Design, ISBN #0-931472-16-4) has an entire chapter on Nitrous and Turbocharging. Here's a quote that's relevant:

"When pressurized liquid nitrous is released through a nozzle, the nitrous converts to gas and the temperature drops to about -128 degrees. Therefore, as nitrous is discharged into the intake tract, the temperature within the tract is reduced considerably. Consequently, nitrous injection of a turbocharged engine delivers many advantages. First, the extra oxygen (and enrichment fuel) provided by the system increases the torque output. Second, the nitrous boost causes the turbocharger to accelerate very quickly and reach the maximum boost level more quickly. Third, the nitrous cools the intake charge and allows the turbocharging system to produce a relatively greater boost level before the detonation limit is reached."

"Because of this three-fold enhancement, the combined effects of nitrous and turbocharging can be spectacular. In fact, the nitrous-oxide injected into a turbocharged engine actually creates more specific horsepower than a comparable amount of nitrous injected into a normally aspirated engine. It is not unusual for a nitrous delivery rate than produces a 50HP boost in a normally aspirated engine to develop as much as 100HP, or, in optimal conditions, 150 extra horsepower in a turbo engine."

In my eyes, David Vizard ranks up there with Smokey Yunick for understanding what goes on inside a motor.

This entire book is excellent, and talks about fuel enrichment, alcohol, nitromethane, engine building,etc. He also talks about injecting nitrous with methanol, which might be of interest to some here.

Another book I highly recommend to you folks is Corky Bell's book on turbocharging, called "Maximum Boost (Bentley Publishers, ISBN #0-8376-0160-6), $34.95. Walks you through layout, turbo selection, lubrication, intercooler design and placement, etc. If I had bought this book before I got his other one, "Supercharged!", I might be running twin turbos instead of an intercooled Vortech V-2 and 2-stage nitrous!

Jim

 

[1000MileStylez]

that was the best reponse on here delta, thanks for the heads up, i will look for that book. where did you get that ISBN number?

 

[Spongebob]

I have ALOT of NOS experience, but unfortunately none of it is turbo application related.

My experience using a fogger on a carbed BBC. Take out as much timing as possible, and use fuel pressure to tune.

With 500hp pills, I had my timing down as low as 12 degrees total. I tuned with an EGT and adjusted fuel pressure at the solenoid to hit the numbers. Rick at NOS was very helpful, but that was about 6 years ago.

Good luck with it, personally I like the hit of a big plate system rather the "softer" hit of the fogger. I have been tempted many times to throw a 75 shot on my Limited!

 

[galoush]

I love when everyone says " Just turn up the boost " There is a point where doing that doesnt get you any more gains . All i know is with my TA49 and 25psi the car would run low 12s @108-109 mph and going up in boost didnt pick it up any , same 21deg chip with a 100shot the car went 11:64@115mph . This is on a hot and humid NY summer day . When its hot these cars fall on their faces it seems , there is an exception to everything of course . On my last outing with a CPT65BB the car went 12:00s @112 with 28-29psi with a 21/20deg Chip with the shot it went 11:79@117mph Bad 60ft the posi is dead, soft launch,nice hot day again. So IMO you can make some gains from it . I didnt get to tune it out with the bigger turbo and had a bigger fuel jet in it than my last track trip. I guess if you have a cam and GN1s , maybe youd want to not mess with the juice . My car runs full fronts , bars and bumpers , and i belive it has to be at least 3600 , i weigh 215 so its no lightweight . Stock unported heads and stock cam . 100+miles . Ive sprayed the car fooling around on the street alot and at the track , all the Guys saying youll blow your motor have no clue , youll blow your motor the same with the juice as if you start putting in crazy chips with crappy gas ,mismatched injectors or anything else you can think of . Also forget the spray bar idea, use the nozzle injector the kit comes with , use an RPM switch to activate it @3000rpm and and a WOT micro switch . Get a pressure gauge and a warmer to maintain the proper psi .

 

[1000MileStylez]

galoush, what part of LI are you from?

 

[87GNcospg]

fantastic response by DeltaT.

 

[galoush]

Port Jeff

 

[DeltaT]

See some pix of my NOS system here:

http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html

New pix by Thur.

Turbobuick is the best overall site I know of, with some very experienced people around. Kill/Fish here is just about my favorite stop...

Jim

 

[ITSAV6]

nos

Just put one fogger in the up pipe like the NOS kit if al you will spray is 50 or so. It works very well if you dont go crazy with the timing. When turning up the boost option doesn't apply spray it. I sprayed a couple of bottles on the street(75 shot) with the stock chip and boost set at 12# and would go to 15# on spray on PUMP GAS and a bottle of 104+ octane booster. Even though they say it will detonate etc. I had no knock retard.

With the NOS jetting it is a little on the rich side and with fuel psi bumped to 43# or so the 2 back cylinders get a little more fuel too.
NOS is a taboo subject here. Be conservitive on the timing and moniter egt,knock,etc and tune for it and you will be ok.

 

[Nashty]

Originally posted by DeltaT
See some pix of my NOS system here:

http://home.mindspring.com/~jim_fisk/id1.html

New pix by Thur.

Turbobuick is the best overall site I know of, with some very experienced people around. Kill/Fish here is just about my favorite stop...

Jim

Nice site. That thing is plain sick !!! What body style is that?

I'm adding Nitrous to my car now. I bought a GN kit used but am only using the bottle and fogger nozzle. Everything else is custom, as is the rest of the car. I'm going to shoot 50 the whole pass. It will come on when I release the trans brake and MSD 2 step. The 2 step is set at 4900 rpm, the boost at that RPM is ~14. It comes up to 22 in about 1/2 second on it's own. I don't need the N20 for spool, I want the extra push. I haven't ever had the car over 24 psi, I want to iron out the N20 so when I get the rest of the car sorted out and turn the boost up to 30, I'll be ready to rock and not surprised by bug-a-boos.

 

[themodfather]

why dont' you spray into the turbo with the outgoing stream,

NITROUS WORKS BEST WHEN YOU ALLOW IT TO COOL THE INCOMING AIR.
thats why the companies say install it as FAR AS POSSIBLE from your motor...

also

Spraying INTO the turbo aiming for the compressor screw would give you INSANE TURBO SPOOL!... and perfect cylinder distribution..

this way spraying only 25-50 shot off the line and you make MORE and more efficient power.....


RESEARCH BEFORE you mod...

 

[broke1]

Originally posted by themodfather
why dont' you spray into the turbo with the outgoing stream,

NITROUS WORKS BEST WHEN YOU ALLOW IT TO COOL THE INCOMING AIR.
thats why the companies say install it as FAR AS POSSIBLE from your motor...

also

Spraying INTO the turbo aiming for the compressor screw would give you INSANE TURBO SPOOL!... and perfect cylinder distribution..

this way spraying only 25-50 shot off the line and you make MORE and more efficient power.....


RESEARCH BEFORE you mod...

N2o does cool the incoming air INTO THE ENGINE whether mounted in the uppipe,direct port,or plate system.NOS recomend's placement in the uppipe.Hell,all there kits for GN's and TTA's come with an uppipe with the nozzle already installed.That alone should tell you something.

If you want to try spraying before the turbo,ill loan you the kit.One guy said he was gonna try it but never posted anything back.

Id think youre in for a big BOOM if you spray pre turbo.Not to mention youre risking fuel puddling inside the IC.What happens when you get a few oz's of fuel in there??You dont think the 1600 degree temps wouldnt ignite it??I do.

Wanna borrow my kit and see??

RESEARCH BEFORE you try to tell us about where to inject n2o newbie.

 

[Razor]

DeltaT, I was looking at your picture, thought I'd save you some heartache, you cant use the type of aluminum tubing for the air inlet. See what happens is when you go through WOT the air rushing inside of it vibrates the tubing and next thing that happens is it starts to split and brake-off.

The hat will probably have to be taller to get more plenum volume. The taller the hat, the better your distribution.

How do I know this..

Camaro1

And

Camaro2

So i've been there..got the shirt

 

[turbosam6]

Besides, spraying nitrous pre-turbo will do ZERO to help spool. In fact, it could slow it down, since there would be actual fuel and N2O present instead of just air.

 

[420]

Originally posted by 1000MileStylez
direct port system from NOS goes into the injector bung and the injector sits on top of it. a fogger system, a 1/8th hole is tapped into the runner for a fogger nozzle to skrew into. a fogger system costs usually around 750, while the direct port system goes for almost 2 grand......

Actually, what you are referring to as a "direct port" system is what NOS calls their "NOSsle" system, which is a relatively new trick (about 2 years old now, I think). A true "direct port" set up is exactly what you described as a "fogger" setup, with one fogger per intake runner, drilled directly into the intake manifold.

Just thorugh I'd clear that up for you

 

[DeltaT]

Razor - thanks for the inputs. The tubing is 3" mild steel, welded, and brazed in with a brass alloy, so it should be strong enough. I am working on isolating the long tube from major vibration, but haven't finished yet.

I agree about the hat volume. My main goal was to fit it all under the stock hood and I have now found I have about 3/4" to spare. I have a K&N 1/2" round spacer I will run to begin with, make sure there is no interferance, then maybe make up a 3/4" one out of aluminum. I can play with the hood structure a bit, but don't want to switch to a poor-fitting 'glass hood.

Your Camaro article looks cool - I like that paint combo a lot!

Jim

PS Some updated pix today - closeups of the tubes we were talking about...

 

[Razor]

Thanks.

I found on mine what it liked the best was actually an air filter mounted straight to the inlet. I tried a 3 inch pipe and it would really starve for air. One of those.. you wont believe till ya try it.

Latter, what was pictured was 4inch truck exhuast tubing.. I spent like 125.00 just on the tubing for the inlet.. then bought a 200.00 cutoff wheel.. then cut through my powder coated inner fender..then welded.. then ground it off..then ceramic chromed it.. was like a weekend project from hell.

I too wanted to fit under the hood, tho after blowing up a motor due to distribution problems..I finally detuned it to live. It made way more power with the tall hat and open KN. Even tho the KN sat above the headers.

Had I had to do it again.. big cowl hood, Victor intake, and would of used alky. But hey..thats how one learns.